• Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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    2 days ago

    Yeah, OP would enthusiastically vote for Mussolini if the other option was Hitler

    Uhh… Are you saying you’d vote for Hitler if the other option was Mussolini?

    What are you trying to say here? That it’s better to “take the higher ground” and just NOT vote? Giving the hardcore right-winger voters an even larger margin by which they elect the horrible option?

    Not voting at all is literally he worst of all available options in the vast majority of democratic election systems.

    Note: if I’m wrong, and not voting actually sends a message in the US, please educate me. The systems I know count the votes as the percentage of valid votes given, which means that not voting always gives advantage to the right side.

    • peppers_ghost@lemmy.ml
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      2 days ago

      The solution if your options are literally Hitler and Mussolini is to get a gun and utilize it. Democracy is already dead if you’re just choosing between two fascists.

      • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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        2 days ago

        Correct! And getting a gun and doing something about it is decidedly not just sitting down in a “silent protest” bullshit “I’m not voting for the lesser evil” stance.

        Another solution is to set up a new alternative and promote that - but that’s not a viable option in the US.

    • WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works
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      1 day ago

      What are you trying to say here? That it’s better to “take the higher ground” and just NOT vote? Giving the hardcore right-winger voters an even larger margin by which they elect the horrible option?

      You’re brainwashed. Election boycotts are a tried and true method of political participation.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_boycott

      If a large portion of the electorate boycotts an election, it doesn’t legitimize either side. Even though one candidate ends up winning by a silly margin, that margin yields no political capital.

      • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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        1 day ago

        You’re brainwashed. Election boycotts are a tried and true method

        Depending on the voting mechanism and scale.

        Have you read the article you linked, Mr. Super Not Brainwashed?

        That only works in two scenarios:

        1. The voting system doesn’t punish non-voters (calculation based on the number of eligible voters, not valid votes).
        2. The protest is performed on such a massive scale, that the entire election is voided (usually below 50% turnout).

        There was NOWHERE NEAR enough interest from US voters for anybody sane to have any hope of the latter happening, and the US system doesn’t give a fuck about people abstaining.

        Election boycott is the offside trap of the election system - if it works, it works, if it doesn’t you just gave the opponent a massive advantage.

    • the_crotch@sh.itjust.works
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      2 days ago

      What are you trying to say here? That it’s better to “take the higher ground” and just NOT vote?

      In a race between Hitler and mussolini, yes. If you participated in a system that gave you a choice between those two you’re part of the problem. Get outta here with your HURR DURR TRAINS RAN ON TIME

      • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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        2 days ago

        Right.

        So in a choice between Holocaust and Fascism, you choose Holocaust.

        Because not voting is boosting the effective numbers of those who vote for the Holocaust.

        And you have the gall to think of yourself as the better person, fuck me…

            • lemmingrad@thelemmy.club
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              17 hours ago

              Of course you do. It’s the way little cowards like yourself deal with violence. You call the cops like a little bitchass snitch, and you expect your authority to do the violence for you. Preferably in far away countries, away from sight.

              Coward

            • lemmingrad@thelemmy.club
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              17 hours ago

              And yet you can search for “no genocide in gaza” and you won’t see my name. You will see yours though. Genocide denialist pos. Fucking die

          • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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            2 days ago

            your hero Mussolini

            Grow up real fast and stop this tribalist nonsense or we’re not going to have a discussion.

            • the_crotch@sh.itjust.works
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              2 days ago

              Hitler and mussolini were both genocidal fascists trying to establish ethnostate empires utilizing violence, oppression, and industrialized murder. That’s not tribalism. That’s “they’re the same picture”. If the choice is between the two of them, then the only ethical option is not to choose.

              I suggest you learn more about these men’s history before you go cheerleading for one over the other for the sake of your dumb metaphor.

              • WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works
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                1 day ago

                Seriously. I chose Mussolini v. Hitler precisely because it was meant to be a reductio ad absurdum. A case where it’s so obvious one should boycott an election. Kamala vs. Trump was not Hitler vs. Mussolini. I only brought it up as an example so absurd that even the densest minds should have to admit that there are times not voting is the logical answer. But some folks are apparently so brainwashed into electoralism that they’ll keep doing it even if it is objectively meaningless. They’ll participate in a cargo cult of a democracy before they admit that voting for either side is pointless.

                • the_crotch@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 day ago

                  Yeah I got what you were going for. It’s hilarious that the other person didn’t, and actually tried to sell Mussolini as the “harm reduction” candidate. I guess you found someone denser than the densest. American schools are in desperate need of more history and civics classes.

              • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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                2 days ago

                That’s not tribalism. That’s “they’re the same picture”

                Suggesting I like one of them is tribalism, mate.

                before you go cheerleading for one over the other

                See? You’re doing it again. I guess you’re incapable of not being childish like that, so it’s EOT from me.

                • the_crotch@sh.itjust.works
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                  2 days ago

                  So in a choice between Holocaust and Fascism, you choose Holocaust.

                  This you?

                  Mussolini was an active participant in the holocaust. You’re voting in favor of the holocaust. You’re advocating for others to vote in favor of the holocaust, and implying that if they don’t then they are guilty of voting in favor of the holocaust.

                  The only way your argument makes sense is if you’re a mussolini fanboy.

      • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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        2 days ago

        It sends the message that you’re not voting, what do you not understand?

        Right. So, just hands up, silent protest kind of thing, give all the power to the even more horrid people?

        Had enough people declared that they wouldn’t vote for the dems if they kept bombing civilians, they would have had to stop bombing civilians.

        No, they wouldn’t. Because “had enough people not voted” the Republicans would’ve stayed in power and escalated things even more - as they do.

        Everything else are those people. with blood on their hand, trying to shift blame to feel better about their sad life

        I guess it just sucks to be stuck in two-party system as hard as the US is. In most other places when you want to show you’re not happy with one of the major parties, you vote for the smaller ones. This often forces the winner of elections to enter a coalition government with the smaller fish, giving them a little bit of power.

          • Alaknár@sopuli.xyz
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            2 days ago

            The genocide was going on for a year when the elections happened

            Which genocide? Gaza, which decidedly WASN’T a genocide at the start, or Uyghurs in China?

            Oh, right, I forgot - you people never talk about the Uyghur genocide.

            Under the Democrats, Gaza was not a genocide. They had foreign aid, Israel was trucking water and meds in, the strikes were preempted with alerts ensuring extremely low civilian casualties. I know “a lot of people died”, but in the first year of Gaza, the civilian casualties were historically lowest in terms of urban combat in a densely populated area.

            You can stomp your feet all you want, those are the facts.

            Once Trump took over, things escalated IMMEDIATELY, and him talking about changing the Gaza Strip into a hotel didn’t help.

            What also didn’t help was how you people were screaming “genocide” so much, when there was none, that now that there IS a genocide being committed, nobody is paying attention, sweeping it all under the “alarmists are loud again” rug. Congratulations.

            Your democrats

            I’m not even from the US, mate.

            You’re not off the hook, scumbag, if there was any justice all genocide voters would get trialed for complicity in crime against humanity

            That means your kind, buddy. The people not voting are the genocide voters. Because anyone with half a functioning brain knew that Gaza would get wiped off the face of the Earth when Trump gets power. The people who didn’t vote are the ones who would be tried in your scenario.