But the good thing is that it’s usually super easy to fix if something does break. The amount of headaches I had with PPAs and snap are worse than having an arch update break something. You can usually roll back the packages with issues (namely anything from nvidia).
Those are valid points, but windows has the exact same issues. Updates break stuff so often that many people have just adopted a habit to never update if they need to rely on their machines. The same is true for me, I spent many hours trying to find a version of the nvidia driver that has no issues.
My company recently enabled windows defender’s ASR and it caused a shitload of issues, so they had to disable it again for half the company.
Windows also does shit like turning up my volume all the time and some update broke lightshot in a weird way where some people who had it installed before the update can use it, but when you install it after the update, it just won’t launch. This crap is impossible to troubleshoot.
Meanwhile on Linux, I can fix pretty much everything with a bit of googling and if I can’t figure it out, I can post on the arch forums and get help for free, usually very quickly and by people who really know their shit.
Isn’t that more of a ‘stable distro’ issue tho? When you run yay every other day you’ll only ever have a dozen packages updating which makes it easy to troubleshoot any breakage.
Compare that to distros that upgrade every 6 months with hundreds of packages all at once. I’d say that carries a much bigger risk of something going wrong. I used to do a fresh install of Ubuntu with every new release purely to avoid the inevitable issues of apt upgrades.
I remember being very frustrated when they rolled out a kernal update this year that broke one of my USB slots.
I don’t remember anymore which version it was, just that it was very frustrating looking it up to find that it was a known issue but still considered low priority enough that shipping out was fine.
Edit: after half a year updated everything in arch and 2 of my USB ports still won’t turn on in the default kernel. Gotta remember which one actually works for them if I ever feel like using this laptop…
For Linux newbies, you can have both Arch and Ubuntu (or any 2+ of your favorite distro installed) by using different root partitions (16-32G) and sharing your home and other partitions.
Though it may work better if the distros you use have different desktop managers or the same desktop manager on the same major version number (KDE 3.x and 4.x settings don’t mix).
you can say Manjaro is bad, completely fucked my system like twice then switched to endeavor, which is the spiritual successor to AntergOs https://endeavouros.com
Yeah, this, and I’m glad to see a level-headed response as to why Manjaro can sometimes be problematic. I would often see a site that listed reasons not to use Manjaro parroted on reddit and it was a fucking joke… like every point was either reaching or ridiculous.
But what you said is very reasonable. It is also why AUR is disabled by default and it is discouraged to use AUR in Manjaro unless you know exactly what you are doing. Because if you enable AUR in Manjaro there is a good chance that you will run into a dependency issue, and there is another chance that this dependency issues breaks your system.
With that said, I like Manjaro and have it installed on a couple systems. I think they have one of the best XFCE setups out of the box. And a few years ago when I got my new Legion 5 laptop, Manjaro was the only distro that the trackpad worked on. I tried Fedora and Ubuntu and Mint and PopOS, but none of them worked with it at the time.
Uh no? You just need the latest kernel which you can install with one click it you use mainline. You’ll also want the latest version of Mesa which you can through Kisak’s PPA. It should take maybe 10 minutes. The average user is going to spend way more than 10 minutes installing and setting up Arch…
unless you are going to argue that it’s not pure arch in which case I will argue it’s distinction without a difference that matters to anyone but the 0.01%
EOS is great, my Arch install when it was fresh was pretty much 1:1 EOS after installing the DE (minus dracut, a wallpaper and some helpers like simple=reflector).
well yeah, but I don’t want to follow instructions when installing my OS, I want a working OS, I don’t particularly care for setting up networking, I want it to just work, hence endeavorOs, click a few buttons, stuff I would install anyway gets installed and it just works.
Could I do the install manually? I could. Will I? I won’t. Why? Exactly. Why would I do it when there is something that does it for me.
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But the good thing is that it’s usually super easy to fix if something does break. The amount of headaches I had with PPAs and snap are worse than having an arch update break something. You can usually roll back the packages with issues (namely anything from nvidia).
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Those are valid points, but windows has the exact same issues. Updates break stuff so often that many people have just adopted a habit to never update if they need to rely on their machines. The same is true for me, I spent many hours trying to find a version of the nvidia driver that has no issues.
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My company recently enabled windows defender’s ASR and it caused a shitload of issues, so they had to disable it again for half the company.
Windows also does shit like turning up my volume all the time and some update broke lightshot in a weird way where some people who had it installed before the update can use it, but when you install it after the update, it just won’t launch. This crap is impossible to troubleshoot.
Meanwhile on Linux, I can fix pretty much everything with a bit of googling and if I can’t figure it out, I can post on the arch forums and get help for free, usually very quickly and by people who really know their shit.
Isn’t that more of a ‘stable distro’ issue tho? When you run yay every other day you’ll only ever have a dozen packages updating which makes it easy to troubleshoot any breakage.
Compare that to distros that upgrade every 6 months with hundreds of packages all at once. I’d say that carries a much bigger risk of something going wrong. I used to do a fresh install of Ubuntu with every new release purely to avoid the inevitable issues of apt upgrades.
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I remember being very frustrated when they rolled out a kernal update this year that broke one of my USB slots.
I don’t remember anymore which version it was, just that it was very frustrating looking it up to find that it was a known issue but still considered low priority enough that shipping out was fine.
Edit: after half a year updated everything in arch and 2 of my USB ports still won’t turn on in the default kernel. Gotta remember which one actually works for them if I ever feel like using this laptop…
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Use old versions of software that doesn’t work, new versions of software that does work
Although it’s only fully possible in NixOS where the deps are not globally installed
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For Linux newbies, you can have both Arch and Ubuntu (or any 2+ of your favorite distro installed) by using different root partitions (16-32G) and sharing your home and other partitions.
Though it may work better if the distros you use have different desktop managers or the same desktop manager on the same major version number (KDE 3.x and 4.x settings don’t mix).
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Since Manjaro is forked from Arch, it would benefit from Arch’s updated drivers, right?
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you can say Manjaro is bad, completely fucked my system like twice then switched to endeavor, which is the spiritual successor to AntergOs https://endeavouros.com
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Yeah, this, and I’m glad to see a level-headed response as to why Manjaro can sometimes be problematic. I would often see a site that listed reasons not to use Manjaro parroted on reddit and it was a fucking joke… like every point was either reaching or ridiculous.
But what you said is very reasonable. It is also why AUR is disabled by default and it is discouraged to use AUR in Manjaro unless you know exactly what you are doing. Because if you enable AUR in Manjaro there is a good chance that you will run into a dependency issue, and there is another chance that this dependency issues breaks your system.
With that said, I like Manjaro and have it installed on a couple systems. I think they have one of the best XFCE setups out of the box. And a few years ago when I got my new Legion 5 laptop, Manjaro was the only distro that the trackpad worked on. I tried Fedora and Ubuntu and Mint and PopOS, but none of them worked with it at the time.
Arch actually has an installer again and it’s fantastic https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Archinstall
Ah fuck well you just determined the course of my weekend with this comment
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Mutahar from SomeOrdinaryGamers made a funny tutorial about manually installing Arch: https://youtu.be/_JYIAaLrwcY
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/_JYIAaLrwcY
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
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Shit, it was a nightmare getting my R9 390 working with 22.04. And don’t get me started on trying to do a RAID 0 install.
Uh no? You just need the latest kernel which you can install with one click it you use mainline. You’ll also want the latest version of Mesa which you can through Kisak’s PPA. It should take maybe 10 minutes. The average user is going to spend way more than 10 minutes installing and setting up Arch…
khm https://endeavouros.com/
unless you are going to argue that it’s not pure arch in which case I will argue it’s distinction without a difference that matters to anyone but the 0.01%
EOS is great, my Arch install when it was fresh was pretty much 1:1 EOS after installing the DE (minus dracut, a wallpaper and some helpers like simple=reflector).
CachyOS is also really easy to install and treats KDE well
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well yeah, but I don’t want to follow instructions when installing my OS, I want a working OS, I don’t particularly care for setting up networking, I want it to just work, hence endeavorOs, click a few buttons, stuff I would install anyway gets installed and it just works.
Could I do the install manually? I could. Will I? I won’t. Why? Exactly. Why would I do it when there is something that does it for me.
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So you go with OpenSUSE Tumbleweed. Well tested with OpenQA and a lot less effort than Arch, but still has the latest software and up-to-date drivers.
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