There were a lot of foreign adventurers who found a place in the Continental Army. I’m not aware of any prominent Russians, though the Russian Empire did mediate the final peace negotiations, I believe, as a neutral party.
John Paul Jones, America’s legendary naval hero, served in the Russian Navy in 1788. After the American Revolution, he was idle in Paris, where he attracted the attention of Russia’s Empress Catherine the Great. She needed “another bulldog” for her war against the Ottoman Turks, and wanted Jones “to make the Seraglio tremble”. Jones spent nearly a decade in France, awaiting the command of a new American ship and performing certain diplomatic duties. Eventually, frustrated by delays, he accepted an offer from the court of Catherine the Great to join the Imperial Russian Navy campaigning in the Black Sea during the Russo-Turkish War of 1787 to 1792.
Nope. Hero kinda precludes not being a child rapist. No “seperating the art from the artist” on that one. Then he’s just some piece of shit who had some war victories.
Ehh… If you want to proclaim your hero is the rapist of a 10 year old girl feel free I guess?
There’s a difference between the morally gray of acts committed in war, and the rape of a 10 year old girl. Which was morally reprehensible even in the perspective of 1700’s Russian society.
He’s not my personal hero at all, never heard of the dude.
Just saying that a horrible piece of shit can still do heroic things, even if awful deeds outshine them. I’d say that those heroic deeds by definition makes them a hero, even if it’s only in a narrow context as “American naval warfare”.
I’d say that those heroic deeds by definition makes them a hero, even if it’s only in a narrow context as “American naval warfare”.
Again, no one is forcing you to call a child rapist a hero… It’s a pretty wild move imo.
By your own definition…is Hitler also a hero?
I think maybe it’s important when mantling someone with the title of “hero” that we weigh the positive and the negative aspects of their contributions, otherwise it can get awkward.
Edit: also, you may have me confused with a different user. I didn’t say he was a hero, that was dagwoodiii a bit upthread, and I suspect he was just copy/pasting some other reference, not his personal moral evaluation of the life of John Paul Jones.
don’t know of any heroic deeds that Hitler did. Do you?
My definition of hero includes general morality… If we adopt your definition of just being brave or inspirational, then you would be hypocritical not too. He was a combat veteran who eventually went on to be the leader of his country. By your definition that’s not heroic?
didn’t say he was a hero, that was dagwoodiii a bit upthread
“I’d say that those heroic deeds by definition makes them a hero, even if it’s only in a narrow context as “American naval warfare”.”
There were a lot of foreign adventurers who found a place in the Continental Army. I’m not aware of any prominent Russians, though the Russian Empire did mediate the final peace negotiations, I believe, as a neutral party.
John Paul Jones, America’s legendary naval hero, served in the Russian Navy in 1788. After the American Revolution, he was idle in Paris, where he attracted the attention of Russia’s Empress Catherine the Great. She needed “another bulldog” for her war against the Ottoman Turks, and wanted Jones “to make the Seraglio tremble”. Jones spent nearly a decade in France, awaiting the command of a new American ship and performing certain diplomatic duties. Eventually, frustrated by delays, he accepted an offer from the court of Catherine the Great to join the Imperial Russian Navy campaigning in the Black Sea during the Russo-Turkish War of 1787 to 1792.
Yeah… I’d hesitate to label him as a “hero” considering he was also a slaver and a child rapist.
Both things can be true. Heroes are not always (maybe rarely) good people. Especially so for war heroes.
Nope. Hero kinda precludes not being a child rapist. No “seperating the art from the artist” on that one. Then he’s just some piece of shit who had some war victories.
Ehh… If you want to proclaim your hero is the rapist of a 10 year old girl feel free I guess?
There’s a difference between the morally gray of acts committed in war, and the rape of a 10 year old girl. Which was morally reprehensible even in the perspective of 1700’s Russian society.
He’s not my personal hero at all, never heard of the dude.
Just saying that a horrible piece of shit can still do heroic things, even if awful deeds outshine them. I’d say that those heroic deeds by definition makes them a hero, even if it’s only in a narrow context as “American naval warfare”.
Again, no one is forcing you to call a child rapist a hero… It’s a pretty wild move imo.
By your own definition…is Hitler also a hero?
I think maybe it’s important when mantling someone with the title of “hero” that we weigh the positive and the negative aspects of their contributions, otherwise it can get awkward.
I don’t know of any heroic deeds that Hitler did.
Do you?
Edit: also, you may have me confused with a different user. I didn’t say he was a hero, that was dagwoodiii a bit upthread, and I suspect he was just copy/pasting some other reference, not his personal moral evaluation of the life of John Paul Jones.
My definition of hero includes general morality… If we adopt your definition of just being brave or inspirational, then you would be hypocritical not too. He was a combat veteran who eventually went on to be the leader of his country. By your definition that’s not heroic?
“I’d say that those heroic deeds by definition makes them a hero, even if it’s only in a narrow context as “American naval warfare”.”
That’s the other way around, though - an American Revolutionary finding a place in Russia.
I know. I just think it’s a cool story.
Fair! But also, as we all know… JOHN PAUL JONES IS A PIRATE! NO LOYALTY DOES HE POSSESS!
https://youtu.be/NoMqvniiEkk
Yeah probably every country tries to/wants in on it if they had just a sausage seller in the vicinity. Thanks!