• itsprobablyfine@sh.itjust.works
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    6 days ago

    The point of the due process is to determine that they were in fact one of these people. Due process doesn’t mean no conviction, it means no witch hunts

    • AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world
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      6 days ago

      They don’t want to follow the rules of Habeus Corpus, then those rules don’t apply to the fascists. The rest of us want those rules, and therefore they should apply. I’m just giving them exactly what they want applied only to them.

      • itsprobablyfine@sh.itjust.works
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        6 days ago

        Mate without due process you don’t know who’s getting hanged for what. ‘I saw _____(name whatever neighbor you don’t like) collaborating with ice’ becomes a death sentence . If you’re so unconcerned with hanging innocents congrats, you’re the fascist now

        • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.catOPM
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          6 days ago

          That is, in fact, exactly how some revolutions with good intentions turned into nightmares far worse than the evils they were revolutioning against.

          If you’re going to punish someone, you need to prove they did something wrong. 100% of the time. It doesn’t matter if you “already know” and it’s frustrating to have to go through this slow process where they get to fight back. It doesn’t matter if you’re “on the right side” or whatever. That whole thinking needs to go right the fuck out the window, even if it is satisfyingly simple in the moment.

          Edit: To bring some specifics to it:

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_Terror

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_White_Terror

          And so on. It also happened in China, the USSR, lots of places. The structures of law are fragile and slow, and just executing the person that someone accused of being a former ICE agent is easy. Until someone with a grudge accuses you, or your family…

          • 小莱卡@lemmygrad.ml
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            5 days ago

            The “reign of terror” by the jacobins was infinitely less bloody than the permament actual state of terror the ordinary people lived in during that time, but of course since ordinary people have no voice they don’t matter, it only matters when some goody noble aristocrats get hanged.

            • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.catOPM
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              5 days ago

              They killed thirty thousand people. It was only that small because eventually a counterrevolution killed off all the people who were defining who lives and dies according to what side you’re on, and then instituted a reign of terror equally bad.

              I wasn’t making any point about the Jacobins. I was making a point about arbitrarily killing people without due process. I didn’t expect anyone to come in and say “come on it wasn’t that bad and anyway look at this other time when things were bad, so who cares,” because of who it was holding the axes, but you do you.

              I’ve been learning a lot about how the .ml people look at politics and life, and it honestly makes it make a lot of sense why communist revolutions so reliably start slaughtering people like leaves in autumn once they get control. Once “your side” is always right, and everything has to be twisted around and perceived that way, why wouldn’t you?

              • 小莱卡@lemmygrad.ml
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                5 days ago

                I’ve been learning a lot about how the .ml people look at politics and life, and it honestly makes it make a lot of sense why communist revolutions so reliably start slaughtering people like leaves in autumn once they get control.

                Yeah man whatever you say 😂

      • TheSambassador@lemmy.world
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        6 days ago

        Ah yes, the real and very successful strategy of fighting fire with more fire. Let’s just go more fascist in the other direction, that’ll show em!

        My dude, I get that you’re angry, but think about your ideas for a second before ejaculating them onto the Internet.

        Confirming that they are actually ICE and that they did terrible things IS WHAT IS NECESSARY FOR JUSTICE. Letting people randomly accuse others and having that accusation lead to a literal hanging is not justice. If that’s not what you mean then SAY WHAT YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE. We are real human beings having a conversation, not competing for Internet points.

        • 小莱卡@lemmygrad.ml
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          5 days ago

          Ah yes, the real and very successful strategy of fighting fire with more fire. Let’s just go more fascist in the other direction, that’ll show em!

          violence is literally the only succesful strategy to fight against oppression, getting slapped and turning your other cheek is not going to work anytime. Violence =/= fascism.

      • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
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        6 days ago

        I saw AngryCommieKender working for ICE! No due process for them to make sure I didn’t make a mistake or lie, straight to hanging!