Moving to git is nice but I don’t understand why they don’t self-host a gitlab instance.
Imho the main argument for github is that it lowers the hurdle for new ane ad-hoc contributions like issues. I’m problably too lazy to registsr a new account for your instance just to open a bug report.
I’d love a federated git/issue/wiki thing
Are they moving issues or just code storage to GitHub?
Code storage. They’re keeping bugzilla.
💀
In my opinion that sounds like a plus. People that are too lazy to register an account to put in a code merge request or report a bug aren’t going to be writing quality code or quality bug reports.
Yes but knowing of a bug is better than not knowing of a bug
Working in a busy codebase for a long time when I have to spend time a non-trivial amount of time triaging through tickets I can’t reproduce that is taking time away from legitimate bug and request tickets I can be working on. It can seriously lead to burnout.
You don’t have to fix every issue, there are also other volunteers who might look at it.
If the reproducible instructions aren’t clear enough or are missing, just ask for more info. If they can’t deliver on that, close it or just move on and other people might take care of it
Speak for yourself, I’ve been prepared to submit detailed bug reports before the process in place to do so turned me off.
I did speak for myself. I said “In my opinion”.
It wouldn’t make it more difficult than with mercurial, which isn’t supported by github either.
They’re going to continue using Bugzilla for bug reports.
GitHub will just serve as code mirror. Patches and bugs will still go through Mozilla’s usually channels.
but I don’t understand why they don’t self-host
Why would anyone self-host a FLOSS project? Trade secrets is not a concern, nor is it barring access to the source code repository. Why would anyone waste their resources managing a service that adds no value beyond a third-party service like GitHub?
Because Microsoft will eat your ass in your sleep
Because Microsoft will eat your ass in your sleep
So Microsoft has access to Firefox’s source code. So what? Isn’t the point of a FLOSS project that your source code should be made available to everyone?
Mozilla allegedly stands for a bunch of stuff that is be definition incompatible with hosting code on GitHub as it is. I bet a lot of people were expecting a lot more from them and instead got this move. Well… I guess this is like unique browser ID that each installation has or the fact that it contacts a 3rd party analytics company no matter your settings - people start by complaining and eventually even say it is right. lol so much for privacy and whatnot.
Mozilla allegedly stands for a bunch of stuff that is be definition incompatible with hosting code on GitHub as it is.
Your statement is fundamentally wrong on many levels, including the fact that it goes against the fundamental premise of FLOSS which is that “the users have the freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software.”
I bet a lot of people were expecting a lot more from them (…)
You only speak for yourself. You do not have a mandate to speak on behalf of anyone, including Firefox users such as myself. Keep your personal opinions as personal. You have the right to have a personal opinion, but you do not have the right to pass them off as anyone else’s.
Your statement is fundamentally wrong on many levels, including the fact that it goes against the fundamental premise of FLOSS which is tha
What is it in my statement that goes against that? Nothing. Just read Mozilla’s Manifesto and then tell me how hosting code on GitHub doesn’t go against Principle 2, 3, 4 and 7. Mozzila’s missing is “to ensure the Internet is a global public resource, open and accessible to all” and by pushing their code on Github they’re making it more popular, essentially perpetuating Microsoft’s dominant market position that is very likely to result in even more abuse, more ecosystems and less open solutions in the future. There’s no way to justify a company with Mozilla’s resources doing this.
Nothing. Just read Mozilla’s Manifesto
Your trolling skills are subpar but given this is a lazy weekend I guess I’ll bite just for the entertaining value.
Let’s go through “Principle 2, 3, 4 and 7”, shall we?
Principle 2 The internet is a global public resource that must remain open and accessible.
Making source code available through GitHub is a realization of Principle 2. You got it exactly backwards.
Principle 3 The internet must enrich the lives of individual human beings.
I don’t even know what could possess you to believe that making a software project available through GitHub would jeopardize this. Anyway.
Principle 7 Free and open source software promotes the development of the internet as a public resource.
That’s what making FLOSS projects available to the public through GitHub does. GitHub, by providing managed hosting to Mozilla to host Firefox’s project tree and making it available to the public, is unquestionably meeting this goal, both in its letter and its spirit.
You need to put some effort into finding things to be outraged about.
I think they were making a joke
I think they were making a joke
The missing /s, coupled with some absurd comments on this thread, make it hard to tell apart the jokes from the activists.
That’s fair, but with that said, I’m gonna eat your ass
Don’t threaten me with a good time
Go on…
Because while you do have control (and “copies”) of the source code repository, that’s not really true for the ecosystem around it - tickets, pull requests, …
If Microsoft decided to fuck you over you’d have a hard time migrating the “community” around that source code somewhere else.
Obviously depends on what features you are using, but for example losing all tickets would be problematic for any projects.
Apparently Mozilla won’t be even accepting PRs there so it doesn’t matter much.
What if you self host in AWS and Amazon decides to fuck you over? What if you decide to self from home and your ISP decides fuck you over? What if? So many what ifs… How do you even live in this world?
Yeah like, wtf
When you use a cloud solution (and especially one with a vendor lock in like Amazon) then yeah, you are fucked there too and I’d question why you did it in the first place.
If you have your own infrastructure - be it a server at home or whatever - then you can always just move it elsewhere, get some other ISP, whatever. There is no lock-in. Inconvenience, sure, but you can migrate elsewhere. That’s just not true about all the other things mentioned, or the friction would be much higher.
Have you actually used anything cloud? Because there’s literally no friction to move things around. Unless you decide to use proprietary features.
With AWS especially there is a shitton of proprietary stuff. Most of the friction is in knowledge however; the cloud environments differ, are configured differently, have different limitations and caveats, etc. Someone who has only ever worked with AWS will have to learn a lot of things anew if they switch. Hell there’s a reason why “AWS engineer” is a dedicated role in some companies.
Now, if you only manually set up some VMs and configure them like you would a regular server then sure, it’s easy to migrate. But when you are missing 99% of the features of the cloud environment are you actually using it?
Because while you do have control (and “copies”) of the source code repository, that’s not really true for the ecosystem around it - tickets, pull requests, …
The announcement to drop Mercurial quite clearly states that their workflow won’t change and that GitHub pull requests are not considered a part of their workflow.
Also, that’s entirely irrelevant to start with. Either you care about software freedom and software quality, or you don’t. If you care about software freedom you care about having free and unrestricted access to FLOSS projects such as Firefox, which GitHub clearly provides. If you care about software quality you’d care about the Firefox team picking the absolute best tools for the job that they themselves picked.
Or, you know, Gitea or such.
I keep hearing people only on Lemmy bring up Gitea but I haven’t really heard of it otherwise. What’s the appeal and what’s keeping it locked away with the Lemmy community?
Money most likely.
I would doubt that. Github for organizations becomes rather expensive rather quickly if you want to retain some level of control, so I doubt Mozilla will opt for the minimum “free for open source” offering.
Github for organizations becomes rather expensive rather quickly (…)
I’m not sure if that’s relevant. GitHub’s free plan also supports GitHub organizations, and GitHub’s Team plan costs only around $4/(developer*month). You can do the math to check how many developers you’d have to register in a GitHub Team plan to match the operational expense of hiring a person to manage a self-hosted instance from 9-to-5.
Slightly confusing title here. A less confusing title would be “Mozilla drops support for Mercurial, moves Firefox repository to GitHub”.
A less confusing title would be “Mozilla drops support for Mercurial (…)
It’s not even about GitHub at all. Taken straight out of the announcement:
“For a long time Firefox Desktop development has supported both Mercurial and Git users. This dual SCM requirement places a significant burden on teams which are already stretched thin in parts. We have made the decision to move Firefox development to Git.”
But a few lines later:
Although we’ll be hosting the repository on GitHub, our contribution workflow will remain unchanged and we will not be accepting Pull Requests at this time
So I don’t know if you meant that the focus of the change wasn’t GH or that they weren’t using GH at all, but it seems like the latter is untrue.
you meant that the focus of the change wasn’t GH
They are dropping Mercurial and focusing on Git. Incidentally, they happen to host the Git project on GitHub. GitHub is used for hosting, and they don’t even use basic features such as pull requests.
Again, this is really not about GitHub at all.
This is the crucial detail that everyone is missing.
It’s the same as with the Linux kernel GitHub mirror.
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The repository will be hosted on GitHub, though the move is expected to take “at least six months before the migration begins.”
Another major opensource project that chooses a proprietary hosting platform 🤷
Let’s be honest here, at least like 98% of the popular OSS is on GitHub at this point. You don’t have to like it, but it’s how things are
Doesn’t mean that they have to continue putting stuff there. But oh well, maybe once ForgeFed becomes a real thing, things might change a little.
People use the most convenient way to collaborate, and that’s for me currently Github. Really hope, some day a better alternative with ForgeFed becomes reality.
It does. OSS needs visibility, it needs contributions
GitHub’s community and discoverability features really help with that, as much as it sucks that they got acquired by Microsoft
Open source was M$’ archenemy that they knew they couldn’t compete against. So they slithered in and co-opted it and everyone just ignores the perils and carries on.
Not to mention the fact that they trained copilot using code on it, without informing or taking permission from the authors and they justify it citing fair use policy.
GitHub is just serving as public code mirror, it’s not going to be their hosting platform.
Using and financially contributing to Codberg seems like a good next step to take. Doubt they will though.
Ah! 😣 Why not nest or self-hosted pijul!?
It’s not battle tested on massive projects nor does it have the prior mindshare git has. It doesn’t have a lot of tooling either. (Does any CI/CD system support pijul?) It has nice properties, but ultimately git with all it’s terrible warts is well understood.
Seems to my mistake. You question is about CI/CD services that supports Pijul. So yes, almost zero. But it’s like ouroboros. Just use pijul more then git and talk about it, and services will support it soon.
CI/CD
Pijul as git or hg or any other is a VCS, so what are you talking about? If you mean web-service like GitHub with social things and CI/CD services, so yes, nest have CI/CD with nix. But mostly you shouldn’t host your huge project on the Nest because, as I’m absolutely sure, you as anyone other should create your own host (public or private) to support decentralization to prevent github-like centralization situation. Pijul was created with decentralization in first place in mind.
Not tested with big projects in production
Not publicly. Many private projects, personal and in-company, that uses pijul are existing. Personally I have one HUGE personal. Also I worked for two companies where pijul is used.
Neither has reached 1.0. They’re perpetually unstable.
Chromium has a mirror on GitHub and it’s fine. While it feels a little strange to have just one mirror (on GitHub), after moving to git entirely, nobody is stopping to them from hosting a GitLab mirror.
Cool now I can actually check it out. Tried to previously but my connection failed about an hour into the clone. --depth=1 --shallow-submodules --recurse-submodules should really be given its own command in git. Not really sure why’d they choose MS as their host though.
So, from a decentralised solution to the world’s biggest repository that actively infringes on free software by violating licenses in their co-pilot unfree program.
Decisions like these, coupled with the fact they are transparently corrupt make me see no indication that Mozilla is heading towards a better future, or contributing anything of value more than they have contributed in the past.
So, from a decentralised solution to the world’s biggest repository
You need to check your notes. Git is decentralized, even if you host a repository somewhere.
Decisions like these (…)
As a Firefox user, these initiatives matter nothing in my decision to use Firefox. In fact, I’m glad they went this way. They need to focus on working on code instead of wasting their time with irrelevant details.
You need to check your notes. Git is decentralized, even if you host a repository somewhere.
I am not sure if you’re wilfully ignoring my point about how centeralised GitHub is, but I’ll assume good faith:
GitHub is enshittifying everything that has to do with Git. It presents a very common pattern where nonfree software providers embrace an open standard, extend it maliciously towards a less open experience by raising capital or being acquired by a large company with massive funding then make its users trapped in many systems that make it a hard time to migrate to other places and eventually introduce anti-features and lock-in mechanisms in late stages of the software cycle.
As a Firefox user, these initiatives matter nothing in my decision to use Firefox.
You should care. As a Firefox user, you should be aware of how the funding and hiring of the people working on Firefox go. For example, most notable updates to Firefox, including Firefox Quantum, were developed in Servo, a different browser project that Mozilla completely abandoned and fired all its employees working on it, all the meanwhile in the same year the CEO gave herself a pay raise that would have paid for multiple developers to work on something proven essential to the performance and security of Firefox.
how centeralised GitHub
It’s a pointless and irrelevant remark. Mozilla uses Git to track work on Firefox. GitHub provides Git repositories. I can clone Firefox out of GitHub, create an account on GitLab/Bitbucket, push the code there, and GitHub does not feature as a concern at all.
What point can you possibly think you’re able to make regarding GitHub?
GitHub is enshittifying everything that has to do with Git.
Nonsense. Speaking as someone who actually hosts the same projects on GitHub and other version control providers, GitHub does not even feature as an implementation detail.
I’m starting to think you’re just trolling.
You should care.
I do my best to not waste my time with irrelevant nonsense. It’s silly to believe that the version control system you use has any influence on the quality of the software you deliver.
But what browser do we use then?
Firefox (or its forks, depending on how much you value privacy and your needs can be met while breaking some data-collecting websites.)
I am not calling for any action in my comment, but things are not looking good for the future of Firefox.
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Doesn’t make much sense to judge a program by its underlying language. While I don’t enjoy writing Python much anymore for several reasons it can produce perfectly fine applications. Mercurial is one such example.
