same as every example you’ve provided, have the working out be incidental to the goal
Fwiw the terminology often used here is “instrumental goal”. That is, a goal is instrumental if it is something someone tries to achieve in order to work towards their terminal goal. If my terminal goal is “win the soccer tournament”, one instrumental goal might be “be able to run a sub-50 minute 10 km”. And you can have instrumental goals to help reach the instrumental goals (this is my terminology, not a standard one, because I don’t know if there is a standard one, but I’ll call these a “secondary instrumental goal”). For example, a secondary instrumental goal to win the soccer tournament’s instrumental goal of run a sub-50 minute 10 km might be to run at least 30 km per week for 6 weeks.
Anyway, some of the sports I chose in my example were chosen specifically because of the grey area this creates. If my goal is to complete a marathon or a triathlon, is that my terminal goal? What if the reason I want to complete a marathon is to show myself that I can get physically fit and healthy? This is not uncommon, I’m pretty sure, especially among 40–60 year-olds. In that case, “get fit and healthy” is the terminal goal, and “complete a marathon” is only an instrumental goal, with a secondary instrumental goal of working out regularly. If my terminal goal is “get fit” and my secondary instrumental goal is “run frequently”, does it really matter if my primary instrumental goal is “run a marathon”?
I’m asking this sincerely, by the way. I’m sorry that other users are downvoting you, but I’m not. I think you’ve touched on an interesting nuance that I want to tease out.
Thanks for the clarification/correction, noted for future use!
And, yes, you yourself have highlighted it perfectly, in all regards it comes down to intent! I, for one, do not intend to achieve any sort of physical milestone other than maintaining my base line. And so far, my general way of being has done just that, without me needing to incorporate a defined Workout Time or Routine into my habituals.
To link it to your given example, in the case of working toward running/winning a marathon, whether your intent is the victory itself or demonstrating your capabilities to yourself, or, I’d add, pushing one’s limits, or anything of this sort, then the workout in itself is not the point (which is why I called it incidental initially, I see it as “if there were an easier alternative, I’m 75% certain most people would take it instead of exerting themselves as much”).
It’s a related principle to the one which sits behind my appreciation of physical effort in the context of physycal labour. My psychological pleasure is a job well done, which in the case of physical labour, same as it would for running a marathon, implies that the better I can handle myself around said physical effort, the better the result of my work will be. If I could chop wood with my mind, I’d probably end up being classified a national threat, or something. Not from killing people, mind you, but from material damages.
And to circle back to my original comment, I know peole who literally sit around the house all day, doing infinitessimally more than Absolute Nothing, then complain about having to hit the gym once they have trouble going up a flight of stairs. Like, no, a gym is not needed unless you want a six-pack(-ish, close enough), or to be creepy with women (I AM JOKING!!!). And by this consideration it irks me every time someone tries to get me to go to a gym. If they’d need help gathering newly dried hay, that’d be a different story.
Edit: as for the downvotes, I genuinely appreciate your clarification. Don’t worry, it’s either my removing the default upvote, or I don’t really care otherwise:)) It’s ok to have different opinions, I never come from the position of holding the ultimate truth, and always leave with the most plausible variant, whether mine or someone else’s.
Fwiw the terminology often used here is “instrumental goal”. That is, a goal is instrumental if it is something someone tries to achieve in order to work towards their terminal goal. If my terminal goal is “win the soccer tournament”, one instrumental goal might be “be able to run a sub-50 minute 10 km”. And you can have instrumental goals to help reach the instrumental goals (this is my terminology, not a standard one, because I don’t know if there is a standard one, but I’ll call these a “secondary instrumental goal”). For example, a secondary instrumental goal to win the soccer tournament’s instrumental goal of run a sub-50 minute 10 km might be to run at least 30 km per week for 6 weeks.
Anyway, some of the sports I chose in my example were chosen specifically because of the grey area this creates. If my goal is to complete a marathon or a triathlon, is that my terminal goal? What if the reason I want to complete a marathon is to show myself that I can get physically fit and healthy? This is not uncommon, I’m pretty sure, especially among 40–60 year-olds. In that case, “get fit and healthy” is the terminal goal, and “complete a marathon” is only an instrumental goal, with a secondary instrumental goal of working out regularly. If my terminal goal is “get fit” and my secondary instrumental goal is “run frequently”, does it really matter if my primary instrumental goal is “run a marathon”?
I’m asking this sincerely, by the way. I’m sorry that other users are downvoting you, but I’m not. I think you’ve touched on an interesting nuance that I want to tease out.
Thanks for the clarification/correction, noted for future use!
And, yes, you yourself have highlighted it perfectly, in all regards it comes down to intent! I, for one, do not intend to achieve any sort of physical milestone other than maintaining my base line. And so far, my general way of being has done just that, without me needing to incorporate a defined Workout Time or Routine into my habituals.
To link it to your given example, in the case of working toward running/winning a marathon, whether your intent is the victory itself or demonstrating your capabilities to yourself, or, I’d add, pushing one’s limits, or anything of this sort, then the workout in itself is not the point (which is why I called it incidental initially, I see it as “if there were an easier alternative, I’m 75% certain most people would take it instead of exerting themselves as much”).
It’s a related principle to the one which sits behind my appreciation of physical effort in the context of physycal labour. My psychological pleasure is a job well done, which in the case of physical labour, same as it would for running a marathon, implies that the better I can handle myself around said physical effort, the better the result of my work will be. If I could chop wood with my mind, I’d probably end up being classified a national threat, or something. Not from killing people, mind you, but from material damages.
And to circle back to my original comment, I know peole who literally sit around the house all day, doing infinitessimally more than Absolute Nothing, then complain about having to hit the gym once they have trouble going up a flight of stairs. Like, no, a gym is not needed unless you want a six-pack(-ish, close enough), or to be creepy with women (I AM JOKING!!!). And by this consideration it irks me every time someone tries to get me to go to a gym. If they’d need help gathering newly dried hay, that’d be a different story.
Edit: as for the downvotes, I genuinely appreciate your clarification. Don’t worry, it’s either my removing the default upvote, or I don’t really care otherwise:)) It’s ok to have different opinions, I never come from the position of holding the ultimate truth, and always leave with the most plausible variant, whether mine or someone else’s.