Meditation is essentially a self-imposed flow state; an artifact of consciousness reflecting extreme focus. It’s akin to a runners high. Its features include ego dissolution, a distorted sense of time, reduced perceptions of pain, and feelings of bliss.
This is normally due to the release of neurotransmitters - dopamine, serotonin, endorphins and GABA, the same chemicals affected by common recreational drugs.
These features are regrettably short-cut with drug use. With training, these states of consciousness can be attained without any downsides (barring destabilizing intuitive realizations like free will being an illusion), though at the cost of not being quite as powerful as drugs.
Think of it this way, meditation is like pouring happy juice on your brain slowly. Taking drugs is like placing the bottle on your head and smashing it with a hammer - sure, you’re going to get a lot of happy juice on your brain, but the glass might make it unbearable, you have no choice when it ends, and the next day you’re going to be forced to pick the shards of glass out.
Weird analogy I suppose, but it helps to illustrate why OP might prefer the slow drip.
At the end of the day, there’s no debate about whether meditation can produce these feelings - it’s simply a matter of whether a person has the time and interest to seek these things out, or whether they want to flood their brains with happy juice.
Personally, I live in both camps; I’ve had profound realizations about my own mind while meditating, but I also like getting zonked off my gourd.
Meh. Your view is born of merely conventional thought and scant experience.
Here’s better.
Meditation is a thing that you do with your attention (aka awareness, sati… depending on who you talk to).
By attention I mean what you direct when you pay attention, what do you concentrate when you concentrate and what gets jerked around when you are distracted.
Attention is the axis of your reality. Its action determines what is visible and invisible, what is important and unimportant. Its shape determines your perspective.
We basically have 2 forms of meditation. 1) a refined form of concentration 2) sortof the opposite.
Drugs influence the attention via the flesh. Like a rough road bounces the driver by bouncing the car.
Meditation addresses the attention directly.
Drugs are limited the way any device is limited. It is crude the way any dumb machine is crude. It is weak as all dumb things are weak. Weak borrowed wings
Meditation is not limited this way. Meditation shows you your own wings and then you pump up those wings and make them strong.
Let’s break this down: You’re essentially saying that paying attention to something is how we experience reality. Well, no kidding. If you pay attention to something, you’re going to notice it more. But that’s not some grand, cosmic revelation. That’s just basic human perception.
I think there’s a bit of overcomplication here. Yes, meditation involves focusing attention, but describing it as the “axis of your reality” is a bit much. The basic idea is that by concentrating, we become more aware of certain things, which does influence our experience. That’s a simple process, not some deep philosophical mystery.
The “wings” analogy also feels like an attempt to make meditation sound more magical than it really is. Meditation is a way to help focus the mind, find calm, and possibly gain insight. But it’s not about discovering some hidden set of “wings” or some grand spiritual power. It’s just a practice for mental clarity.
As for the comparison to drugs, both meditation and drugs alter consciousness, but in different ways. Drugs can give an intense experience, while meditation tends to offer a slower, more controlled shift in awareness. Saying that drugs are weak because they’re like a “dumb machine” doesn’t really capture the complexity of either experience. Both have their place, and both can have benefits, depending on what someone’s looking for.
In short, meditation isn’t some mystical or supernatural process, it’s about training attention in a specific way. The real value comes from consistency and practice, not some grand revelation.
Edit: also, bold of you to assume my experiences are scant, and born of conventional thought - when you have no way of actually understanding what experiences I’ve had.
It’s evident that your experiences with meditation aren’t sufficient to counter your hubris.
Yes scant and born of conventional thought. You talk like a guy who just finished reading a pop-psychology book on meditation.
And your retort consists of “well no kidding” (so we agree, right?) and “it isn’t a grand cosmic revelation” (or “deep philosophical mystery”) (which I didn’t say at all).
Look, if your reality consists of what you see, circumscribed by what you don’t see, and attention draws that line, then yes, I’d say that “axis of reality” characterizes that nicely.
And if your attention is bound by, say, a thousand habits, and meditation removes those habits (temporarily, messily, in the case of drugs), replacing them with intelligent action (a flying-like freedom, one might say), then yes, “wings” fits nicely too.
As for the difference between drugs and meditation. You are splitting hairs. I’d call the one splashing on the shore and the other going for a swim. Same ocean tho.
But you think I’m overstating it and my metaphors are overblown, well, that’s just your opinion and there is a strong possibility that our experiences simply differ.
I talk like a guy who read a pop psychology book? That’s very judgmental. I did my best to articulate my thoughts and you arrogantly claim your own response is better, even though the court of public opinion regards my explanation as preferable.
You claim meditation is helpful for focusing attention, but this reply is the first which isnt riddled with grammatical or structural errors. You dont need flowery language to describe your sensations.
As for the dichotomy between drugs and meditation, it all depends what metric you’re evaluating. The ones aforementioned in my comment (which you’ve reduced to ‘getting high’) are the metrics I’ve used, but doesn’t encompass the entire spectrum of drug use. There are ways to compare them, and way they’re different - it’s a very narrow perspective to simply claim that one is just a more extreme version, or that one is better.
Gimme your better explanation please.
Meditation is essentially a self-imposed flow state; an artifact of consciousness reflecting extreme focus. It’s akin to a runners high. Its features include ego dissolution, a distorted sense of time, reduced perceptions of pain, and feelings of bliss.
This is normally due to the release of neurotransmitters - dopamine, serotonin, endorphins and GABA, the same chemicals affected by common recreational drugs.
These features are regrettably short-cut with drug use. With training, these states of consciousness can be attained without any downsides (barring destabilizing intuitive realizations like free will being an illusion), though at the cost of not being quite as powerful as drugs.
Think of it this way, meditation is like pouring happy juice on your brain slowly. Taking drugs is like placing the bottle on your head and smashing it with a hammer - sure, you’re going to get a lot of happy juice on your brain, but the glass might make it unbearable, you have no choice when it ends, and the next day you’re going to be forced to pick the shards of glass out.
Weird analogy I suppose, but it helps to illustrate why OP might prefer the slow drip.
At the end of the day, there’s no debate about whether meditation can produce these feelings - it’s simply a matter of whether a person has the time and interest to seek these things out, or whether they want to flood their brains with happy juice.
Personally, I live in both camps; I’ve had profound realizations about my own mind while meditating, but I also like getting zonked off my gourd.
Shout to my own comment from a month ago
Meh. Your view is born of merely conventional thought and scant experience.
Here’s better.
Meditation is a thing that you do with your attention (aka awareness, sati… depending on who you talk to).
By attention I mean what you direct when you pay attention, what do you concentrate when you concentrate and what gets jerked around when you are distracted.
Attention is the axis of your reality. Its action determines what is visible and invisible, what is important and unimportant. Its shape determines your perspective.
We basically have 2 forms of meditation. 1) a refined form of concentration 2) sortof the opposite.
Drugs influence the attention via the flesh. Like a rough road bounces the driver by bouncing the car.
Meditation addresses the attention directly.
Drugs are limited the way any device is limited. It is crude the way any dumb machine is crude. It is weak as all dumb things are weak. Weak borrowed wings
Meditation is not limited this way. Meditation shows you your own wings and then you pump up those wings and make them strong.
Let’s break this down: You’re essentially saying that paying attention to something is how we experience reality. Well, no kidding. If you pay attention to something, you’re going to notice it more. But that’s not some grand, cosmic revelation. That’s just basic human perception.
I think there’s a bit of overcomplication here. Yes, meditation involves focusing attention, but describing it as the “axis of your reality” is a bit much. The basic idea is that by concentrating, we become more aware of certain things, which does influence our experience. That’s a simple process, not some deep philosophical mystery.
The “wings” analogy also feels like an attempt to make meditation sound more magical than it really is. Meditation is a way to help focus the mind, find calm, and possibly gain insight. But it’s not about discovering some hidden set of “wings” or some grand spiritual power. It’s just a practice for mental clarity.
As for the comparison to drugs, both meditation and drugs alter consciousness, but in different ways. Drugs can give an intense experience, while meditation tends to offer a slower, more controlled shift in awareness. Saying that drugs are weak because they’re like a “dumb machine” doesn’t really capture the complexity of either experience. Both have their place, and both can have benefits, depending on what someone’s looking for.
In short, meditation isn’t some mystical or supernatural process, it’s about training attention in a specific way. The real value comes from consistency and practice, not some grand revelation.
Edit: also, bold of you to assume my experiences are scant, and born of conventional thought - when you have no way of actually understanding what experiences I’ve had.
It’s evident that your experiences with meditation aren’t sufficient to counter your hubris.
Yes scant and born of conventional thought. You talk like a guy who just finished reading a pop-psychology book on meditation.
And your retort consists of “well no kidding” (so we agree, right?) and “it isn’t a grand cosmic revelation” (or “deep philosophical mystery”) (which I didn’t say at all).
Look, if your reality consists of what you see, circumscribed by what you don’t see, and attention draws that line, then yes, I’d say that “axis of reality” characterizes that nicely.
And if your attention is bound by, say, a thousand habits, and meditation removes those habits (temporarily, messily, in the case of drugs), replacing them with intelligent action (a flying-like freedom, one might say), then yes, “wings” fits nicely too.
As for the difference between drugs and meditation. You are splitting hairs. I’d call the one splashing on the shore and the other going for a swim. Same ocean tho.
But you think I’m overstating it and my metaphors are overblown, well, that’s just your opinion and there is a strong possibility that our experiences simply differ.
I talk like a guy who read a pop psychology book? That’s very judgmental. I did my best to articulate my thoughts and you arrogantly claim your own response is better, even though the court of public opinion regards my explanation as preferable.
You claim meditation is helpful for focusing attention, but this reply is the first which isnt riddled with grammatical or structural errors. You dont need flowery language to describe your sensations.
As for the dichotomy between drugs and meditation, it all depends what metric you’re evaluating. The ones aforementioned in my comment (which you’ve reduced to ‘getting high’) are the metrics I’ve used, but doesn’t encompass the entire spectrum of drug use. There are ways to compare them, and way they’re different - it’s a very narrow perspective to simply claim that one is just a more extreme version, or that one is better.