Provided you say that russia / china are in fact not communist, what would be a real existing (or past) communist country in which a large amount of people have lived?
Provided you say that russia / china are in fact not communist
The capitalist Russian Federation was formed in the 90s (leading to the economic disaster and the desperation that allowed Putin to rise to power). Russia is literally not, in any way, a socialist state for 35 years now.
The former Soviet Union, similarly to China today, was ruled by a communist party. This means the government is trying to move towards socialism, but it does not imply they’ve established a socialist mode of production - the goal of the socialist movement. This is a big source of ambiguity and confusion when people try to argue if countries “are/aren’t socialist”, that’s too vague, and even then you can’t just tell by the current situation - a government or society can follow a school or thought or ideology (socialist theory) before it achieves its goals (a socialist mode of production). “Communist” can refer to either the social movement (SU and PRC were obviously that) or the politico-economic reality (obviously neither has achieved that, let alone a socialist MoP),
Economies like China’s are a big source of debates among socialist theorists about whether it’s state capitalist, communist, or some mixed hybrid economy. Their economy has departed from capitalism-as-we-know-it, but still have the core features (capital, private property). But, regardless of their economy, they’re clearly a party trying to achieve communism, and therefore the PRC is a communist state that hasn’t achieved a communist mode of production.
TL;DR: Until we ask more specific questions, someone can say these countries are communist, someone else can say they’re not, and both are correct answers.
There are pre-industrial societies (including some like Zapatista territory in Chiapas, Mexico with 300,000 people) which some would call socialist or even communist, but I don’t think they’re worth bringing up when discussing whole modern countries - their situations aren’t as applicable to our conditions.
Russia is no longer guided by Communist leadership, but both the PRC and former USSR are examples of countries led by Communists, with Socialist systems. Same with Cuba, the DPRK, Vietnam, Laos, and more.
Laos has been governed by the Lao People’s Revolutionary Party, under which non-governmental organisations have routinely characterised the country’s human rights record as poor, citing repeated abuses such as torture, restrictions on civil liberties and persecution of minorities.
Linking a bunch of Wikipedia pages isn’t really a point, especially with propaganda outlets like HRW and Amnesty International featured prominently as sources. A country being Socialist doesn’t mean it’s a perfect wonderland, just that public ownership is the principle aspect of its economy.
By and large, though, these countries do much better than Capitalist peer countries, with higher life expectancies, literacy rates, lower poverty rates, and more. Further, they are usually the targets of large sanctions and embargoes, and subject to constant western propagandizing and myth making.
If you have a specific thing you’re curious about, we can go in depth and try to separate fact from fiction, or contextualize them. If not, and you’re just going to call countries “ass” because they protect their economies from US financial Capital, then there’s not much to discuss.
And I’d be down to live in China for a few years, or Vietnam, for sure. Wouldn’t want to move away from my family for the long run though.
Provided you say that russia / china are in fact not communist, what would be a real existing (or past) communist country in which a large amount of people have lived?
The capitalist Russian Federation was formed in the 90s (leading to the economic disaster and the desperation that allowed Putin to rise to power). Russia is literally not, in any way, a socialist state for 35 years now.
The former Soviet Union, similarly to China today, was ruled by a communist party. This means the government is trying to move towards socialism, but it does not imply they’ve established a socialist mode of production - the goal of the socialist movement. This is a big source of ambiguity and confusion when people try to argue if countries “are/aren’t socialist”, that’s too vague, and even then you can’t just tell by the current situation - a government or society can follow a school or thought or ideology (socialist theory) before it achieves its goals (a socialist mode of production). “Communist” can refer to either the social movement (SU and PRC were obviously that) or the politico-economic reality (obviously neither has achieved that, let alone a socialist MoP),
Economies like China’s are a big source of debates among socialist theorists about whether it’s state capitalist, communist, or some mixed hybrid economy. Their economy has departed from capitalism-as-we-know-it, but still have the core features (capital, private property). But, regardless of their economy, they’re clearly a party trying to achieve communism, and therefore the PRC is a communist state that hasn’t achieved a communist mode of production.
TL;DR: Until we ask more specific questions, someone can say these countries are communist, someone else can say they’re not, and both are correct answers.
There are pre-industrial societies (including some like Zapatista territory in Chiapas, Mexico with 300,000 people) which some would call socialist or even communist, but I don’t think they’re worth bringing up when discussing whole modern countries - their situations aren’t as applicable to our conditions.
How westerners decide what they accept as communist:
Russia is no longer guided by Communist leadership, but both the PRC and former USSR are examples of countries led by Communists, with Socialist systems. Same with Cuba, the DPRK, Vietnam, Laos, and more.
Cuba seems to be a great country, people there most definitely have great lives. Freedom_of_the_press_in_Cuba Elections in cuba
laos
human rights vietnam
DPRK = north korea
Sure are great countries you listed there…
For the record i dont want to doubt that marxism would be a nice experience but the lack of non ass, real countries makes me do so
If its so much better there how come you dont live there?
Linking a bunch of Wikipedia pages isn’t really a point, especially with propaganda outlets like HRW and Amnesty International featured prominently as sources. A country being Socialist doesn’t mean it’s a perfect wonderland, just that public ownership is the principle aspect of its economy.
By and large, though, these countries do much better than Capitalist peer countries, with higher life expectancies, literacy rates, lower poverty rates, and more. Further, they are usually the targets of large sanctions and embargoes, and subject to constant western propagandizing and myth making.
If you have a specific thing you’re curious about, we can go in depth and try to separate fact from fiction, or contextualize them. If not, and you’re just going to call countries “ass” because they protect their economies from US financial Capital, then there’s not much to discuss.
And I’d be down to live in China for a few years, or Vietnam, for sure. Wouldn’t want to move away from my family for the long run though.
Ah yes my favourite, all other information is propaganda.