Top Apple analyst says MacBook demand has fallen ‘significantly’::A top Apple analyst said Wednesday that shipments for MacBook computers will decline around 30% year over year.
Part of a manufactured recession is that everyone goes broke from getting laid off or suppressed wages, and they can’t afford to buy your shit. Whodathunk?
Why is everyone making this a price thing? The way I see it, this is because Apple Silicon is so damn good. I replaced an Intel MacBook Pro with an M2 Air and I’m not going to need another machine until this thing stops working. People shouldn’t need to buy new laptops every couple of years. This is a win in my eyes.
Plus everyone bought new tech during the pandemic, and now it’s over people are going outside and touching grass again so they don’t need the latest tech just 2.5 years later.
Plus the M2 MBP is barely an upgrade over the M1.
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Or until Apple decides that, for some reason, your M2 can’t run their newest operating system and eventually apps don’t support your operating system anymore.
So like 7-10 years?
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Well the surface pro 2013 launched with windows 8 amd you camnupgrade for free to windows 10 that ends support in 2025. So that is 12 years of support. You cam modify the windows 11 installer to install on a surface pro also
You cam modify the windows 11 installer to install on a surface pro also
You can technically install MacOS on old, unsupported Macs too. I’ve never done it personally but I know people who’ve been running the latest software on long-unsupported hardware with no issues for years.
You mean in 5-7 years when those devices are completely outdated?
This is going to blow your mind, but your computer doesn’t explode when it stops getting updates. You can keep using it as long as the tools you use don’t specifically require a new OS. I know, it’s crazy, but it’s true.
But you already can’t install MS 365 on Big Sur.
And? Not everyone uses MS 365.
That was true for windows machines until Win 11 started forcing the TPM requirement
Windows should generally be treated like malware for this sort of reason
This is going to blow your mind but from a security perspective this is the dumbest thing you can do
The M2 chips and presumably the M3 as well are incredibly sophisticated but they’re not powerful exactly, they’re just power efficient. They deliver excellent performance for their power draw.
But if I actually want to high performance chip I can get better options as long as I don’t care about battery life, and if I need a high performance chip I probably don’t actually care about battery life.
So it’s good for people that want reasonably good performance on the go but no power use really cares.
The bigger point here is that if you need that kind of power, it comes with compromises to battery life, heat, and device longevity.
Apple silicon is just fast enough for most workloads you want on a laptop, and can handle surprisingly heavy video workloads. For anything more, a desktop is a better idea than a laptop anyways.
There’s definitely a niche for desktop replacement class laptops, but that is a niche. Gaming laptops are still king though. You don’t buy a macbook for gaming.
Gaming laptops are such a terrible way to game that I can’t think of a situation where I’d recommend one.
For budget reasons, get a console or build a couple gen old desktop for a cheaper price.
For portability? Get a Steam Deck.
If you’re gaming at the dining room table, it’d be better if it were a Steam deck. On the couch? Game on your console if you have one; if you instead have a PC, game on it hooked up here.
Doing non gaming stuff? Well, you probably don’t need a gaming laptop for that - a “productivity” laptop makes more sense.
And of course, that’s where MacBooks shine.
Admittedly I am in a weird situation where consoles and steam deck are both off the table. I am a bit of a framerate junkie. 30fps is unplayable.
Amusingly my m1 max macbook can actually hold 120fps in final fantasy xiv and actually has a 120hz screen, but those specs for the price would make no sense if this wasn’t also my main productivity system. The battery life, heat, speakers and screen quality are all huge bonuses in this case.
A steam deck would never satisfy me, so a gaming laptop would have been mandatory for travel if not for my macbook.
Right? Thats what “falling demand” should be attributed to. It’s a computer which will last years because of how capable it is. I’m not sure expecting people to upgrade computers year over year is the right metric for how well a product lineup is doing.
Apple Silicon chips are game changers, the rate of adoption is going to different compared to phones or a different product category however.
I see the ARM Apple machines as less valuable than the Intel ones.
Macbooks from circa 2007 to recently were PC-compatible machines, you could run Windows or a standard version of Linux on them. They were often well-built, and since Apple kept to a fairly limited subset of hardware it was easy to support them.
The M1 and M2 machines cannot run Windows and are pretty incompetent at running Linux, so if your hobby or job requires either of those platforms Apple no longer offers that value to customers.
All the higher ups at work used to run macbooks mostly because they were built well and looked good. But they ran windows because we don’t make any software for Mac. An M1 is useless to them (our software is not compatible with parallels as the 3d support just isn’t good enough)
It’s not even that unusual based on the support queries we get… still get the occasional salesman who has ‘upgraded’ to an M1 and has to be given the bad news.
I will say, my one concern for my 15" Air is the shelf life is currently limited to whatever Apple decides it to be. With my previous Intel MacBooks, I could string a few extra years out of them with Opencore, but as it stands that won’t be an option when Apple drop OS support for my M2. The same is true of those Intel machines though; what will happen to them once macOS no longer supports non AS hardware?
Perhaps by then, the devs behind Opencore will have figured out how to get AS software working on Intel hardware, and will have cracked being able to run the latest macOS on unsupported M1/2 chips, but we’ll have to wait and see.
All that said, my Air is only a few months old, and should reasonably expect to see updates for a good 5/6 years, by which time Asahi Linux ought to be a rock solid alternative if needs be.
Meanwhile I’ve got a 4th gen Intel Dell sitting behind me that turns ten next June, and it will likely be supported by Linux Mint for several more decades.
My 5 year old 2015 model macbook pro still works the same as the day I bought it. I have zero need for upgrading to a newer model.
Same with my 2012 one! However I am a video editor, so the M1 Max is my current system. Not sure my 2012 mbp could handle 4k video unfortunately! 😂
I replaced my surface pronwith a surface pro 9. So went from February 2013 to Nov 2022. Worked well for me sll that time.
Surface pro 9 won’t get replaced until the 30s
Just don’t buy cheap shit
Just don’t buy cheap shit
For a lot of people that’s easier said than done, shits expensive yo
That said, I had bought a Sony Vaio in 2012 that just crapped out last year, and I replaced it with an upper end Lenovo Thinkpad that’ll hopefully get similar mileage. Same with phones, I bought a OnePlus 8 Pro in 2020 that is still humming along seamlessly. Before that, I had a Nexus that I had had forever (and kept working thanks to CyanogenMod/LineageOS).
There’s a huge benefit in buying high quality stuff in that they usually tend to last a lot longer than middle of the road/low end. Then again, I’m extremely thankful that I’ve worked my way into a financial position to do so. But alas, it’s Vimes Boots Theory at work.
I still have a 2011 MacBook Pro at home, trucking along running Monterey like a champ. Absolutely solid little machine, that, but it ought to be considering how much I paid for it back then.
My Asus laptop from 2011 is still running with Linux. But, it’s time to change this one after 12 years.
It cost me a huge amount of money at the time but worth it.
I’m not following — what’s the cheap shit you’re referring to here?
It’s cool that you were able to keep your Surface for so long though. I wish more people would hang onto their tech until it actually needs replacing.
New MacBook: M1 RISC 8GB RAM 250 SSD 1440x900 resolution Touchbar that prevents touch typing? No touch screen $2200+
Decline in demand is sooooo mysterious.
Weird take.
Even the lowest end MacBook Air is 2560x1600. The touch bar got dropped years ago when they transitioned away from Intel. Pricing for the specs you listed starts at $999.
There plenty to criticise. No need to make shit up.
Weird take indeed, but I personally don’t understand why macs don’t have touch screens yet. I’m using laptops with touchscreens for over 8 years now and can’t imagine using one without it.
1400x900 what? I though they all have those Retina displays something?
But in general yeah. A time to throw away stones and a time to gather stones.
First they’ve been building reputation and product image, then those became so strong that their actions, useful or harmful, had no apparent effect, and then it turns out they no longer know how to build reputation, product image and the product itself.
It’s funny how many things can be explained just in control theory terms, with feedback loops, response times, sensitivity etc.
1440x900 is the native resolution of a brand new MacBook. I don’t follow gibberish terms used in Macintosh hardware. Retina is eye tissue.
Even the lowest end MacBook Air is 2560x1600.
Oh no people can’t afford anything how can we fix this? Maybe more pizza parties? Or how about forcing people to come back to the office and burn their own money in gas and other expenses? Maybe try raising prices more while keeping wages low, that will fix it!
I’ve never seen companies do more user- and employee-hostile shit than in the last couple of years.
These companies, who stayed afloat because almost everyone worked from home during the pandemic and got shit done while millions of humans died, are now trying to say WFH doesn’t work. Let me just check your earnings reports. Oh look, billions and billions of dollars per quarter while you lay off staff to bump your bottom line.
This shit makes me so angry.
I this case, they are probably suffering from success. Shitty manufacturing and unrepairability aside, the M macbooks are the first competent macbooks in quite a while, so most people probably bought the first versions and now they have no desire to upgrade, because why would they? I have an M1 Pro and aside from gaming performance there is absolutely no reason for me to upgrade.
Istn that the case for every notebook these days?
I have the same model, use it for music production and it’s the sound of my piano via Pianoteq and my synth via Arturia Pigments. It’s going great.
But if they’re that good,why don’t people buy 2 or 3 of them? Don’t they like apple anymore?
They are expensive for the general public. But the M1 chip is actually very performant.
I wonder how this compares to PC sales, and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if this is an industry-wide decline.
I’ll be that guy: MacBooks are PCs.
But yes it’s industry wide. There was a huge boom of computer and computer accessory sales during the pandemic due to work from home and other factors. Now a lot of people have stuff that’s only 2 or 3 years old and they have no need to upgrade.
Laptop sales are expected to rise year on year.
This is an Apple problem, likely because of their price point. Apple’s previous advantage was usability, but they pivoted to luxury. Luxury demand goes down when markets are surpressed, but the demand for utility does not.
No, most computer sales are way down this year compared to last year.
IDC shows Apple’s sales are down 23% year over year this most recent quarter (Q3 2023), worse than the overall market of down 7.6%.
But in Q2 2023, the last quarter before that, Apple was the only manufacturer to show an increase, up 10.3% when the overall market was down 13.4%.
In Q1 2023, Apple’s shipments dropped 40.5%, while the market as a whole dropped 29%.
Q4 2022, Apple was down 2.1% while the industry as a whole was down 28.1%
If I were at a computer I’d be able to pull these things up more comprehensively, but you get the point. Apple is in a weird position because they released a big change right in the middle of the pandemic when demand for computers was already through the roof, but they’re still in the same basic boat as everyone else, with the booms of 2021 to 2022 giving less demand for upgrades so soon afterward.
I was looking at total revenue, for the global market, but you’re right that I probably should have been looking at units.
Slightly different picture it seems.
I’ve been wanting to buy one for a while, but they are a bit too expensive.
If the base model had at least 512gb ssd and 16gb ram, then I would have purchased one. I just keep waiting to buy until this is the case.
Meanwhile prices only seem to go up and wages stagnate.
I was out when they did the thunderbolt only thing. and of course when they realized it was a mistake, they not only fixed it but also added a massive unnecessary notch in the display to make it match the iphone. it’s like the joke writes itself in my case.
All pc sales are down. Other PC companies profits are terrible. Everyone stocked up for work from home and now are good.
Plus everyone buying Mac in 2020 were buying the new (at the time) M1 MacBooks which are phenomenal and will easily last a long ass time. M2 has been a marginal upgrade over the M1 and really only applies to people who need to upgrade now, but won’t be a real upgrade for people who just bought an M1.
Plus they’re soon to announce the M3 chips so I would wager a lot of people are hanging on to what they have to see what that’s gonna look like before pulling the trigger.
I always hated the UI/UX of Mac. I find it annoying and ineffective to work on without heavy modification and third party tools.
I stopped using Macs years ago because with every update I lost more control over the computer, making even basic configurations difficult. It felt like walls closing in.
If all specialized software would work there, I’d be 100% in Linux now because it’s just the superior OS - stable, easy to use, flexible and accessible (aside from Wine).
I was the same way… It’s been about 20 years since I last owned a mac. I skipped the intel years entirely. I was given an M1 mbp for my current job though and its honestly fantastic… One of the best machines I’ve used in years. The chip is a huge part of it.
Since there are so many developers on mac these days, there is a ton of tooling around there to customize the UI enough to be flexible. I’m quite happy on it.
The cause could be that they’re lasting longer. Or it could be the fact that they’re not repairable, don’t support virtual machines or windows, have cut corners internally to increase profits margins and for the most part don’t play games. The company I work for, previous the ARM CPU switch bought MacBooks exclusively and either ran windows in parallels or used boot camp. We can no longer do that to run any of the tools we use for machine programming or troubleshooting so we buy razer blade 15s now. That battery isn’t as great but they’re powerhouses and have awesome repairability.
Apple and repairability are two opposites. Am not convinced about lasting longer either. Gluing and soldering everything doesn’t help with replacing parts, especially since they fought tooth and nail to ban independent repairs.
Why can’t you run Parallels?
I am not sure if you can not, but ARM doesn’t come with hardware level virtualization features many of the solutions today depend on. VBox for example doesn’t want to run until I enable those in BIOS. It’s certainly is possible to emulate anything, but probably less efficiently.
This is hilariously wrong. I have run virtual machines on Apple Silicon myself. They literally built a virtualization framework for the product in question.
We can use parallels, just not to run x86 windows.
For the same reason you can’t run Windows 11 Pro on your phone. The chip architecture.
As weird as it sounds you can (with poor performance). With something like Limbo or Termux you can actually get Windows or any x86 OS running underneath Android on a phone.
Fun project maybe, but not really utilitarian though. Never used apple so can’t actually report on how well their emulation and/or translation layer is working on Arm.
You can run Windows on Apple Silicon in a VM. These people are just wrong. Also Windows for ARM exists.
You might want to tell that to the people who make Parallels.
You can run virtual machines on Apple Silicon. I have done it myself. Also Razer are known for bad reliability.
We’ve had no problems with them so far and the fact that they can be easily dusted and cleaned has made them more reliable than the MBPs we were using. In a dirty environment they fill with dust and don’t live long.
Yeah Apple products aren’t exactly durable. Still I hope you have a service contract with razor.
You can run virtual machines on Apple Silicon
You can, but with emulationb for anything needing x86 (like Windows). Which means it’s slow and unusable
Nope, they use Windows for ARM
Right which still isn’t the x86 version of windows that basically every vendor I’ve come across requires for tooling software and machine programming. It’s okay to be wrong fan boy.
My god you’re calling me a fanboy long after I sold the only Apple device I owned. Like it’s actually hilarious in how off the mark you are. It wasn’t long ago I was getting downvoted on Reddit for suggesting someone not buy their girlfriend a macbook.
I am well aware of the compatibility issues, it’s why I sold my M1 machine. The thing is you were specifically talking about Windows as an example of something that needs emulation, which it doesn’t. It’s specific applications that need “emulation”, which isn’t even a normal emulator. For macOS applications they mainly use static recompilation, and for Windows apps dynamic recompilation (dynarec) is used. Windows for ARM translation layer basically acts like a JIT compiler.
Apple’s implementation is actually shockingly good because they built an x86 like memory coherency mode into the M family SoCs (specifically in the performance cores) and because they are using the static recompilation that I mentioned. Apps running in a Windows for ARM VM couldn’t use that last time I owned a MacBook.
I partly think m1 is just so good no one has any appetite to upgrade. But also shit do be expensive. For me it’s repairability. I’m seriously considering not getting another Mac at my next upgrade cycle unless something changes soon.
It’s between Apple and framework for me for my next laptop. The question is do I want a laptop that I can infinitely repair and upgrade, or do I want a laptop that actually has battery life when I pull it out of my bag because it has a functioning sleep mode. Thanks Intel. Maybe make sure your processors are actually power efficient before axing S3 sleep.
People give apple a lot of crap and I get it. But they are still by far the best user experience laptop. There’s a reason with all that walled garden stuff. It’s good hardware and software when used by anyone with the purpose of just using it and not needing to tinker with it.
I’m at a point where I don’t mind the idea of diversifying my time with Linux more. I have an older pc I have mint for fun and a steam deck. Just worried one of these days apple will mess macOS up to the point of no return and Linux will be my lifeline.
As someone who uses macos every day my worthless internet opinion is that the Gnome 4 desktop experience is far better for productivity. I mainly use a web browser, email, and ssh, so I tend to value windowing and multidesktop fluidity highly. This is also coming from a linux certified tech though.
Oh no, does Tim Apple know???
Tech companies aren’t hiring. They’re firing.
Still rocking my M1 Air. Battery is good and it’s so much more powerful than I’ll ever need for my casual use. There is literally zero reason for me to buy another Macbook right now and I’m betting that’s the case for most Mac users.
Same machine, but even with the desire to upgrade, it just seems like Apple themselves don’t want me to.
A MacBook Air M1, with the upgraded 8-Core CPU, 16gb ram and 512Gb storage ran me just shy of £1400 2 years ago and has been an excellent device for all my needs.
A similarly specced M2 machine is closer to £1700, and that’s not even the 15in model! Why would I upgrade when the price increase is so drastic? I would’ve happily sold my current MacBook Air and considered the 15in Air, but it simply doesn’t add up.
The base M1 Air as you and many others said, is already such a powerful machine that it really doesn’t need updating, especially when you consider that subsequent machines don’t provide a meaningful boost to productivity from M1 to M2, as intel to M1 did.
