Everybody knows what needs to be done. Parenthood needs to be sustainable for the parents. There’s just no political will to implement a policy that will only start paying off in 20+ years. Every politician kicks the can down the road, or implements half-hearted policies.

Edit: Just realised I posted this to the wrong instance comm 😅

  • Panamalt@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    4
    ·
    7 days ago

    You forget that most of the assholes in charge right now don’t give a flying fuck about fertility rates, having an educated workforce, or even anyone’s rights and opportunities. All that matters to them is making more money and hanging onto power. The fuckers can practically read the future as long there is a dollar sign in front of it, and as far as they are concerned, the rest of us don’t factor into that future.

    • Taokan@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      6
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      7 days ago

      I believe some of the rich assholes really do see birth rates as a sort of global crisis. Mostly because it poses a threat to their bottom line. Less workers = less labor to exploit, less consumers to buy their shit, pay subscriptions or blast with ads. And a demographic shift where the size of the older generation is greater than the younger generation massively screws up social security systems that depend on taxes from the young to pay the benefits for the old. And, more nefariously - because parents necessarily consume more and become more reliable workers: when you’re living paycheck to paycheck you can’t afford to quit, take unpaid leave, turn up overtime or go on strike. But perhaps too, some may be experiencing the existential crisis that there is a real, natural limit to the growth of the human race, that we are not god-destined to just expand forever and ever, but rather finite in our place in the cosmos.

    • Jiggle_Physics@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      7 days ago

      Many are concerned. Capitalism requires a growing population. It is just they seem to believe force is the way to go.

        • Lvxferre [he/him]@mander.xyz
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          6 days ago

          Capitalism requires a growing population.

          How so?

          Sloppy/oversimplified explanation:

          In capitalism, each business is trying to maximise its own margin of profit. And to do so, it needs to produce more for a cheaper production price, and sell it.

          Technology makes each worker output more production, but it also makes their labour more expensive. So to produce more, better tech is not enough; you need more workers.

          And to sell more of your production, you need more people buying your stuff, because there’s a limit on how much each will buy.

          This means each business needs an increasingly larger number of workers and customers. At the start they could do it by venturing into other countries, and killing local businesses; but eventually you reach a point where you have megacorporations like Unilever, Google, Faecesbook*, Nestlé etc. Where do they expand into? Where do they get more customers and workers from?

          *call me childish, I can’t help but misspell it.

          • iii@mander.xyz
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            6 days ago

            Isn’t that a bit like argueing that a bathtub needs to increase in size every time you take a bath, as you add water?

            In other words, it’s ignoring a whole part of the bath: the drain.

            In the same way it’s ignoring a whole part of capitalism: bankrupcies and other forms of debt foregiveness. As some businesses become irrelevant, and as new ones are started.

            • Lvxferre [he/him]@mander.xyz
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              6 days ago

              Bankruptcy is a mostly a risk for small and nascent businesses: raw material is more expensive, economy of scale works against them, they start out with less know-how, they have a smaller reserve of capital to handle eventualities, banks are less eager to give them loans, so goes on. Eventually they get outcompeted by another business, often a considerably larger one, that keeps growing.

              So the analogy with a bathtub full of water doesn’t work well. It’s more like a box full of balloons; except those balloons keep growing, and the bigger balloons are actually harder to pop than the smaller ones. Eventually the pressure forces a few small balloons to pop, but as soon as they do the bigger ones take the space over. And they keep exerting pressure over the box. [Sorry for the weird analogy.]

              • iii@mander.xyz
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                6 days ago

                Bankruptcy is a mostly a risk for small and nascent businesse

                That’s untrue? The big ones also go bankrupt. It’s a risk shared by every company, to keep adapting as the world changes.

                Even the VOC, at a point the largest company in the world with more assets than most countries, folded.

                • Lvxferre [he/him]@mander.xyz
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  6 days ago

                  That’s untrue? The big ones also go bankrupt.

                  The likelihood of the company going bankrupt decreases with its size. It’s a gradient, not categories, so saying “big companies can also go bankrupt” does not falsify what I said at all. (Note that I outright listed some of the reasons why this risk decreases.)

                  to keep adapting as the world changes

                  And bigger companies are clearly in a better position to adapt to changes than smaller ones, so your argument is only reinforcing my point.

                  Even the VOC [Dutch East India Company], at a point the largest company in the world with more assets than most countries, folded.

                  You’re now aware that the VOC would look like an ant in comparison with modern megacorporations. For example, Walmart is around 350 times larger than the VOC was in its prime*.

                  Also note how poor of an example the Dutch East India Company is, given that it was effectively a vassal state of the Dutch government, not an independent group like the megacorpos of today. And it didn’t simply go “bankrupt”, it lost a literal war against the United Kingdom (the fourth Anglo-Dutch War).

                  *Note: around 1670 the VOC had 50k workers (source), and its annual operating profit was estimated to be equivalent to US$ 80 millions (source). In the meantime, Walmart controls 2.1 million workers³ and its operating income for 2025 is around US$ 29 billions (source for both).

                  • iii@mander.xyz
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    6 days ago

                    And bigger companies are clearly in a better position to adapt to changes than smaller ones, so your argument is only reinforcing my point.

                    How so? The replacement rate is shorter than in recorded history (1)

                    It seems that the older corporations had a very hard time adapting to new technology, to the point that they’ve been replaced by new smaller ones that outpaced them in only 30 years?

                    And it didn’t simply go “bankrupt”, it lost a literal war against the United Kingdom (the fourth Anglo-Dutch War).

                    It also went bankrupt.

                    *Note: around 1670 the VOC had 50k workers

                    Of course you have to place it in historixal context: both in world population and in respect to other contemporary companies.

          • iii@mander.xyz
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            7 days ago

            That dissertation does not explain why capitalism requires population growth.

            Rather it takes “capitalism requires positive economic growth” as an axiom, to argue that such growth can not persist.

            • Jiggle_Physics@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              7 days ago

              Yes, and growth is sustained by striking a balance of quality and quantity in terms of the human population. If this balance becomes out of whack you will decline into what they refer to as “malthusian stagnation”. So the population does need to grow in order to sustain economic growth, along with the quality of the individuals that make up the population. What they refer to as “economic darwinism” beings to truly take place as a population has the extra resources to put more into children than parent, creating generational progress. Post industrial economic darwinism gets a buffer, so-to-speak, due to the increased per capita productivity introduced by technology. However this is also not infinite, and so, at some point this will plateau, and the population will need to begin rising again to spur growth. We are likely in the midst of this plateauing.

              • iii@mander.xyz
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                7 days ago

                So the population does need to grow in order to sustain economic growth

                The argument is going round in circles, but never explains if nor why capitalism requires economic growth. Therefore it also does not explain if nor why it requires population growth.