Waste defined: devoting 30 million acres of prime farmland to growing fuel for cars
Similary with biodiesel, lay waste to rainforests to grow palm oil for biodiesel
Tbf so are fossil fuels.
Mate, everything on earth comes back to solar energy eventually, that’s not news, or even a helpful way of thinking about it.
How easy is it to produce an absolute butt load of efficient solar panels which won’t just degrade in 30-40 years? How many tons of rare earth minerals do you have to mine to make that happen?
Now how easy is it to get farmers to grow corn, and stick 10% ethanol in your fuel?
Obviously it’s not anything like a complete solution, but it’s an easy first measure to take.
Turns out solar is easier and cheaper per kwh.
Next defense of wasting 30 million+ acres of prime farmland when people are starving in the US?
Available farmland is not the reason people are starving in the US
No, wasting resources is. And farmland is a resource.
Don’t get me wrong, obviously there will be a starvation underclass in any place with any form of capitalism, but there’s no reason to exacerbate the problem. Especially when you could generate the same total energy with 1/5th that land and use the rest for actual food. Or rewilding.
Oil and coal are just comically inefficient solar
All these corn subsidies need to stop in the US imo we need to encourage our farmers to grow diverse crops. It would especially be important if we were to have really high tariffs put in place…wait
I wish he goverment would roll back corn subsidies and use that miney instead to fund farmers to grow actual food for people to eat.
They failed to show the math. Corn ethanol net energy ratio is about 1.3. For 386 equivalent gallons of gasoline per acre, the net yield is 90 gallons per year, with all inputs fossil fuels. 2.9mwh of heat energy per year, but as vehicle power under 800kwh.
For solar today, even with spacing, and just 4 sun hours/day average (many places in US are higher), 500+mwh of electricity per acre will be produced per year. Over 60x more. And if you needed a fuel instead of electricity, 30x better efficiency with hydrogen electrolysis fueling Fuel Cell vehicles than ICE ethanol.
Where the lobbying is extra stupid is that corn ethanol profit per acre is $170, but risky. Solar at scale in US has typically cost $1/watt installed with AC conversion equipment. That is 2c/kwh lifetime (34 years) without financing, or with full financing at 5%, an additional 4c/kwh. To make $170 from 500mwh, means selling/using electricity for just 0.033c/kwh higher than financing costs (which weren’t included in corn scenario).
Further to Hydrogen, the price of ethanol is equivalent to $3/gallon gasoline (generally matches price of gasoline equivalent). $6/kg Hydrogen is power/cost equivalent. 10c/kwh electricity input is $6/kg cost. Solar is much cheaper when no permission/conversion to electric utilities are needed (cheaper still without tariffs), but one power of H2 electrolysis “behind the meter” is to have an alternative to wholesale electricity markets, diverting to H2 only when electricity price is not high enough. Boosting profits of both solar electricity sales and H2 sales, and making utilities friendlier to connecting to your electricity.
This is exactly the info i was looking for. Thanks for taking the time to share!
If you ignore the impact on the environment, fertilizers, CO2 production by machines required to grow that stuff. Sure, then it is just ineffective solar.
In reality it is a environmental nightmare.
Edit: some more insight https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2014-12/documents/environmental_challenges_associated_with_corn_ethanol_production.pdf
It might be the only option for things that need energy dense storage mediums like aviation. Though algie based SAFs may make more sense and be more efficient.
IMO biodiesel, ethanol made from sugar cane, and possibly even synthetic fuel1 make more sense than corn-based ethanol for energy dense storage.
(1 use excess cheap electricity for electrolysis of water into H2, combine that with sequestered CO2 to make methane, then use the Fischer-Tropsch process to turn that into liquid hydrocarbon fuel)
Removed by mod
You still need a way to store and move energy. How big a battery you want on that ocean liner? Or do you only sail when its sunny?
Also, trains. High Speed rail could be the answer to many inter city business flights
That’s a way to put it. And you can’t grow corn in a desert or marginal land where you can put solar panels.
… I was saying this was a bad idea when it was being workshopped/introduced… because exactly what is happening now is what … I said would probably happen… as I was getting my Econ degree during the 08 financial crash.
… At the time, every lefty/liberal was high on Obama winning and just pooh pooh’d me as being pessimistic for no reason.
I also still think Cash for Clunkers was a bad idea.
Fucked over the used car market, fucks over the poor who couldn’t afford anything better, EVs and Hyrbrids were waaay more expensive back then, only benefitted the better off who just had a car laying around that they didn’t use.
They hated him for he was telling the truth.
no u
