Lemmy reacts to a non-sexualized silly outfit pic in a totally normal way…
Previous posts in this series…
- incredible find: https://lemmy.cafe/post/10217719
- epic ratio: https://lemmy.cafe/post/9597634
- lemmy is a worse platform for women than reddit was: https://lemmy.cafe/post/4821164
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If people act like that on 196, please report it
goated mod 👑
i miss [bigotry showcase] it made me feel like i was on the sane part of the internet
Related to the previous posts bit, but I remember first seeing the Man vs. Bear memes.
I’ll admit it was hard not to take it personally at first, because even if you agreed with the core of the message, it feels like you’re being lumped in with the worst of menkind for no good reason. That’s probably why the reaction was so toxic, because people just replied with their gut reaction, which was to take offence…
But upon giving it a bit of thought, I realised that as a guy who’s lived in some dodgy areas, I think I too would oftentimes prefer to take my chances with a bear than alone with a stranger at night - not cause I think I’d beat the bear, but at least you know what the bear’s probably gonna do…
And if I feel that way being a man, then considering (on average) women are weaker than men of the same build, I can see why women would feel that way too.
it feels like you are being lumped in with the worst of menkind for no good reason.
Before I realized I was trans I also got super upset at being lumped in with bad men (although with an additional different reason that I didn’t understand at the time), and that feeling is absolutely terrible, because you’re basically getting shit on just for existing.
From my perspective as a woman it seems like there are a lot of shitty dudes out there. After I realizing I’m trans it became a lot easier to notice misogyny since it now affects me. I did notice before, but when something affects you specifically you notice it a lot more. I also didn’t fully understand how weak women are compared to men until I started taking estrogen. Just being near a man I don’t know well or at all is very scary because of how easily he could overpower me.
If I am getting a random bear vs a random man I would definitely take the bear just because I feel like the risk of getting a bad man is too high. If I could pick a specific man, I definitely would pick my father or a friend because I know they are good men and I feel safe around them.
I think some outrage could have been avoided if the question was worded just a bit better, although I think part of why it got so popular is because of the outrage it caused.
I love all these comments like this woman is asking, cares, or is even interested. “I totally probably would.” Okay, but would she??? Why do they think this woman wants to be someone’s last call when she could be someone’s first choice? If I looked at a picture of a regular guy and my fat ass was like, “Hmm, I mean, if I was drunk, and I had no options, I guess I’d take him home” I’d be dragged, and rightfully so. 😂
the guy who made that comment is in this post right now saying “you don’t know the women or NBs i associate with [or if i make them uncomfortable]”
meanwhile in this post are several women and NBs saying “yeah that made me uncomfortable” 😭 listening to women is hard for misogynistic actors i guess.
fortunately the mods over at [email protected] are doing their job to wack this guy.
Oh hey, I’m in this screenshot making an off-color comment. We can debate misogyny and such, probably won’t be very productive.
The thing I find interesting in this: “Italians Do It Better” is an inherently sexual statement. Everyone knows that IT is sex and maybe some other reference with this style of bumper sticker meme. That’s what makes it funny. So then, is it wrong to make a sexual joke about someone who is wearing a funny sexual statement? I don’t think so.
If she were wearing a plain tee or some other logo, I wouldn’t make a sexual joke. This feels like white knight silliness to me.
The IT is vague and open-ended, not inherently sexual. Its inherently ambiguous and people fill in the blank with whatever is being referenced. We really don’t know what IT means to the person wearing it, but you chose to make it sexual.
I assumed IT in this post was referring to murdering CEOs.
I don’t know how to tell you this, but when people refer to “doing it” without any additional context, they’re talking about sex. The shirt is undeniably sexual.
The shirt doesn’t say “doing it”, it says “do it”
So apparently Nike is a sex thing now
This format of tagline has been around since like the 70s. The IT is inherently sexual. Usually something like, “Diamond Cutters Do It Harder.”
It’s a double entendre and isn’t funny without the sexual subtext.
So, unless there was a convention to redifine this joke that I didn’t hear about; yeah, it’s sexual. Anything else is just trying to contort common social mores to fit an agenda.
If it was a big hairy guy wearing a shirt that said “Bears Do It Better” I would also expect sexual jokes.
I don’t view it as being sexual. Too many people wear this corpo slogan as if it’s just “proud to be X.” It could be sexual, but unless I see other things that go with being overt, fun, sexual, joking, then I can’t really make the conclusion.
I’m not saying everyone should think like that, just that plenty of people can see a woman wearing “Italians do it better” and not think sex.
And I’m far from being an ace. No idea why it doesn’t sound like sex to me.
your attitude makes the places you go unbearable. do better.
You don’t know me or the women and NBs I associate with. Thanks for playing.
Which one was yours? Looks like the mods agree it wasn’t conducive to the environment they want.
Would you proudly tell the women and enbies in your life about the comment on a woman’s body you left on the internet? And ultimately even if, in the context of a friendship, and the folks you associate with, this would be taken well, don’t you think it’s worth listening when people say you’re being creepy and off putting?
I mean, I still totally probably would.
Back in my drinking days, I definitely would have taken her home at last call.
I didn’t comment about her body in that comment.
Anyhow, with caveats, I would totally make that comment in front of the right crowd. I’ve been to a lot of kink parties and drag shows. Cis-het peeps don’t have a monopoly on catty coments.
If someone wears a shirt with a sexual statement on it, then others will make sexual statements about them.
I didn’t even think about the Luigi/Italian thing until I read it in a comment. To me, that shirt said that she has sex better than people who aren’t Italian.
I did make a deleted comment referring to her Botox or plastic surgery and that I considered it a red flag. I find uncanny valley plastic surgery profoundly unattractive. I don’t remember exactly what I said. It was flippant and arguably objectification.
So, I misread the room and my joke was poorly received. I haven’t read the rules for shitposting or whatever and would not be surprised if I violated a rule.
From my view, the shirt with a funny sexual statement invites other sexual statements. I think that anyone that denies that the slogan is a double entendre is naive at best. The level of outrage amusing.
What gross things to say.
I didn’t comment about her body in that comment.
Ah so when you replied to someone commenting on her body and face saying that you would “still” have sex with her after drinking, that was a comment on her deep and rich personality? Just because you didn’t literally mention her body in it doesn’t make the comment not about her body, and I think you know that.
with caveats … in front of the right crowd.
Maybe a public forum with a person you don’t know is not the right place to make those.
I’ve been to a lot of kink parties and drag shows.
No one is impressed by “I have a black friend”, stop using is as justification.
Cis-het peeps don’t have a monopoly on catty coments.
No one said they did, and if you want to get into the weeds of this, folks that are also subjugated under patriarchy share a kinship and an understanding of the contexts and ways ‘catty’ comments should be made. Maybe going to a couple drag shows doesn’t give you the proper context to understand what justifies a ‘catty’ comment. Maybe a random internet commenter saying they “still would” doesn’t come off as a clever fun sassy razzing all the drag queens do. Maybe instead it sounds like basement dweller saying “she’s not hot like the chicks I jerk off to, but I guess I would still fuck her”.
I did make a deleted comment referring to her Botox or plastic surgery and that I considered it a red flag. I find uncanny valley plastic surgery profoundly unattractive. I don’t remember exactly what I said. It was flippant and arguably objectification.
Wow, I am so proud of you for realizing how wildly disgusting this comment is before leaving it up for too long. I would suggest you grow as a person and have that realization when you think it, and guide yourself away from being a creep.
From my view, the shirt with a funny sexual statement invites other sexual statements.
It doesn’t. Stop.
“if i was at a kink party or drag show” ITS A SILLY MEME SUBCOMM NOT A BURLESQUE SHOW FUNK OFF 😭
call me insane, but i want to be able to click on a silly image of a niche micro celebrity i love for her persona doing an incredibly tame expression of her sexuality and not be subjected to 6+ comments about how you “totally would” and “boobs lol” comments. go repost to r/celebsnsfw or wherever and make those comments in that context if you absolutely can’t keep it in your pants.
thanks for your comment ❤️
What happens when you group all chronically online nerds in one place (twice not going outside and talking to girls)
I feel like it depends on the instance, .world is mostly male liberals (who will occasionally act sexist) while Blahaj.zone is mostly Transfem :3
(Btw I wouldnt tolerate any of those comments on c/Trans)
“Italians do it better” is an intentional double entendre, so I feel moving to a more sexual commentary is not wholly out of the ballpark of reasonableness.
Fuck “Is this your first day on the internet” response, though, and the other two weird comments.
We really 95% male here, though? I thought it was more like 70-30.
im italian id like to know what do i do better?
As an Italian, you have the power to respect people more.
Everyone has this power, but Italians do too!
Nope, rare PugJesus L I’m sorry. It’s an obvious Madonna reference.
Wearing Madonna’s clothes is not a reasonable invitation to body objectification. Really, wearing any clothes should never be considered a sexual invitation without further context or permission.
Nope, rare PugJesus L I’m sorry. It’s not a double entendre, it’s an obvious Madonna reference.
… is it not a double-entendre when she wore it in that video? I’ve only ever heard it (and adaptations) used in the context of a double-entendre, and the song’s lyrics and visuals don’t seem to contradict any such interpretation. I mean, it’s literally used in the scene where the boy who presumably impregnates the girl of the lyrics/video/Madonna’s depiction first catches her eyes in a clear depiction of a sexually charged first meeting/attraction/whatever.
Wearing Madonna’s clothes, especially clothes that reference a pretty serious non-sexual video, is not a reasonable invitation to body objectification.
I mean, commenting on a rando’s selfie that’s not posted by said rando is so devoid of context that I often have trouble discerning what is and is not appropriate (regarding the behavior of the commenters, not myself - I generally don’t have the urge to comment on said photos), so it’s more of a general observation, but, absent all that, “Woman wearing a shirt with a sexualized message gets a sexualized joke directly related to the content of that message” does not seem, on a first reading, absurd, other than in general crassness that can be applied to sexualized jokes about people in any circumstance.
If she was uncomfortable with it, it would be unambiguously wrong instead of just lacking in context that would make it appropriate (ie an offense rather than a mistake). But, as I said - unless a rando’s selfie is uploaded by said rando, there’s no context, so my observation of whether the comment is appropriate is in a vacuum, and may not fit the context of the conversation or atmosphere of the comment thread.
(edited for clarifications)
Okay… let’s back up. Forget the text on the shirt— A woman’s clothes do not make an invitation to objectification. Period. Other context might, but just clothes does not do it. Hope this is clear haha.
(To answer your question yes it is a double entendre in the video. But if some in-universe character sexualized Madonna’s character in the video simply over the shirt it would still he inappropriate. Fans wear merch all the time, people wear revealing clothes all the time, and none of that gives an OK to sexualization.)
Okay… let’s back up. Forget the text on the shirt— A woman’s clothes do not make an invitation to objectification. Period. Other context might, but just clothes does not do it. Hope this is clear haha.
Sure, which is why context is important, and why rando selfies uploaded by someone other than the rando are difficult to place in context and pretty inherently uncomfortable to me. Sexual jokes about other people are also generally uncomfortable to me, but I also recognize that it’s a form of humor that is not inherently illegitimate.
My point here is only that “On a pic of someone with a shirt with a sexual joke on it, a commenter makes a sexual joke related to the shirt’s sexual joke” is not entirely out of left field. There is a clear chain of thought that is not inherently absurd, not just “The first thing thought of when they saw a woman is ‘comment on her breasts for no reason’”. Your view is that he misread the context - that the context is NOT sexual and humorous, his view is that the context was sexual and humorous to begin with; mine is that these contextless selfies who aren’t posted by the, uh, self, lend themselves to this kind of clash.
(To answer your question yes it is a double entendre in the video but this isn’t the video. Fans wear merch all the time, and merch that has suggestive content still doesn’t give an OK to sexualization.)
I know this is secondary to the main point, but I can’t held but return to it - if it’s a double entendre in the video and a double entendre in common usage, how is its usage on the shirt not a double entendre?
“On a pic of someone with a shirt with a sexual joke on it, a commenter makes a sexual joke related to the shirt’s sexual joke” is not entirely out of left field.
Okay agree. Just please approach this “well technically” rhetoric with caution. Can be easily misread, as I did, just in the opposite direction.
…how is its usage on the shirt not a double entendre?
It is, I just phrased it weird. Let me go edit it.
Okay agree.
Cool, we’re in agreement. 🙏
It’s not appropriate (as the context of the selfie originator is unavailable, and absent that context or other signifiers, any selfie should be assumed to be non-sexual), but it is dependent on an assumption of or misreading of context (presumably in good faith) rather than a sheer bloody-minded determination to give a passing woman the metaphorical wolf-whistle.
Just please approach this “well technically” rhetoric with caution. Can be easily misread, as I did, just in the opposite direction.
I mean, it’s more than a technicality considering your response was to accuse him of having his first thought upon seeing a woman to comment on her breasts unprovoked. “This your first time on the internet?” implying that such comments are inherently acceptable is a dick response from him, so fuck him, but a defensive response of some sort was going to be inevitable given the (ha) context.
If I mess up cleaning a pan because I rarely use pans (tinfoil brigade reporting), messing up cleaning the pan is not made okay by the fact that I do it rarely (I should have been prepared, I should have been more attentive, etc), but if someone accuses me of having left the pan dirty on purpose, I will absolutely respond with vitriol, when otherwise I would have inquired as to what I did wrong or been apologetic (not to imply that that’s the average response from someone objectifying someone else inappropriately, simply pointing out that IF they’re reachable, they then become less reachable by that human reaction). Because then it’s been transformed from a mistake to a deliberate offense.
Completely off topic but it’s funny to me that when we have a cordial disagreement I get pummeled with downvotes—even if we come to an understanding in the end.
The power you wield, PugJesus. Use it responsibly.
if someone wears a shirt specifically designed to draw attention to their larger than average breasts, perhaps people should not be surprised when people… yknow… pay attention to said breasts?
with that being said, the actual content of the comments, pretty gross and degrading… but the fact that the comments are about breasts should not be surprising in the slightest
I’d like to point out that MOST SHIRTS with text on them have it over where the boobs would be, regardless of what that texts says
and if someone wears a shirt with text over their boobs, people are gonna glance at their boobs while they read the text
Correct
i fail to understand how i am very respectable when i try to find a girlfriend yet this misogyny is widely celebrated by some men and some women find it acceptable. is somthing wrong with me?
Women are not a monolith and not all admiration of physical attributes is misogyny.
If you see it as work or effort to not post online about random peoples physical attributes when you see a picture of them, then yea you should look at yourself a bit. It shouldn’t feel like you deserve a reward for not being like that.
Which instance was this on?
[email protected] which someone else said has a problem with this sort of thing. wasn’t personally aware it was localized.
.world users suck compared to blahaj.zone. With .ml, you get tankies, but with .world, you get more transphobes and lib normies. I spend all my time here, getting shocked by what’s normalized when I visit other instances. The people here can be horny, but are much more likely to respect boundaries if told.
