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The Grace Hopper Celebration is meant to unite women in tech. This year droves of men came looking for jobs.
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Hosting a conference for women and non-binary people…in Florida?
Now I could be wrong, but I think there’s probably one or two women and enbys in Florida :P They haven’t been completely outlawed yet
A lot of these conferences have contracts with conference venues that kinda locks them in for hosting the conference at that location multiple years in a row.
How many years back do we have to go before Florida would be a good idea for a conference like this?
Well, less than 10 years ago, Fort Lauderdale wanted to be the US capital of trans tourists, so maybe not that long.
I must say as an (AFAB) non-binary person in tech, the title of this article makes me uncomfortable as it obscures the fact that this event was for both women and non-binary people.
The article notes that Cullen White, AnitaB’s chief impact officer (AnitaB ran the conference), said that “some registrants had lied about their gender identity when signing up”. I would appreciate more detail on how they determined whether people were lying or not, especially considering there would be no advantage to lying since the article mentions that self-identifying men were permitted to attend the event.
However, I’m not confident that women and non-binary folks arent getting misgendered as cis men here. What about trans women or non-binary folks who are still in the closet? What about AMAB non-binary folks who are comfortable presenting as their AGAB? What about AFAB nonbinary folks who pass as cis men?
It gives me the impression that this event is only really meant for AFAB people who present femme enough rather than really including non-binary folks (which is something I encounter a lot personally in my tech career) and trans women. It makes me uncomfortable to think I would only be an acceptable person to attend if I present femme, or because I’m clearly AFAB.
Just to clarify I’m sure that many cis men attended this event in bad faith, which is certainly an issue which warrants discussion, I am just focusing on on one part of this debate and raising my concerns as a non-binary person.
Edit: Grammar
Adding this as a reply since it’s a completely separate point but:
The idea of gender-specific events (as a generalization) is one that is conflicting to me. I certainly understand their value and importance, and as it stands today they are probably necessary. I, personally, am someone who benefits from them and enjoys them.
In the long-term though, as this event shows, it’s difficult to actually confirm that someone is the specified gender without being extremely invasive or excluding folks who aren’t performing the specified gender enough (whatever that would mean). The only unproblematic way to run an event like this would be to assume the good faith of the attendees, I think.
To me, in this situation, having a gender specific tech job fair feels like a bandaid solution to a wider issue that needs tackling: which is that we need to make tech recruitment less intimidating and more inclusive of women and non-binary folks in the first place. For example, how can we improve the existing mixed-gender job fairs?
I’ve also been seeing discussions that job adverts for tech jobs themselves are often worded in a way which is intimidating to AFAB folks. And I certainly feel like this is true based on my personal experiences.
For example: https://www.stemwomen.com/the-importance-of-inclusive-job-adverts
I would appreciate more detail on how they determined whether people were lying or not, especially considering there would be no advantage to lying since the article mentions that self-identifying men were permitted to attend the event.
Yeah, that’s extra sketchy. Gives me more of the impression that by “female and non-binary” they meant “cis women and some enbys & trans women IF they dress up feminine”. In an event that doesn’t bar men from entering, why would any guy lie about their gender identity? What’s the prize, getting to enter a convention that you could have entered if you didn’t lie anwyays? As a trans woman that still presents masculine and has not started any HRT, it wouldn’t be the first time someone assumed I was just lying about my identity to… I dunno, score brownie points I guess?
In an event that doesn’t bar men from entering, why would any guy lie about their gender identity?
Never underestimate the pettiness of entitled, generally conservative, men. Plenty would do it even just to mock the event or “for the lulz.”
“There were just a lot of men in the comments on anonymous profiles being like, ‘Well Don’t hate the player, hate the game,’” Barman said. “Basically proving that they are men, they’re not actually non-binary, and that they very much came [to the conference] in an aggressive nature to take space.”
And according to people on Twitter and TikTok, women were literally being shoved out of place and jumped in front of in lines, and lots of these men had “he/him” on their badges as their pronouns. These were cis men being jerks.
Thank you for linking an additional article. I’m going to be focusing in on some particular parts of this article which relate to my original concerns, though certainly reading this article and getting more detail about what exactly transpired at the event was distressing. The behaviour demonstrated is completely unacceptable, and would have definitely made me feel unsafe, especially the physical shoving.
I am going to be arguing again that I’m worried that some trans and nonbinary folks are getting misgendered as cis men. However, even if some of these folks were trans or nonbinary, if they were partaking in the behaviour that was detailed in this article, then what they were doing was still completely unfair.
many reported seeing male-presenting attendees with he/him on their nametags
This doesn’t mean for a certainty that these individuals are cis men. Nonbinary folks don’t exclusively use gender-neutral pronouns or neopronouns, many nonbinary folks are comfortable presenting as their AGAB and using those respective pronouns. These people could also be closeted trans women or nonbinary folks.
“There were just a lot of men in the comments on anonymous profiles being like, ‘Well Don’t hate the player, hate the game,’” Barman said. “Basically proving that they are men, they’re not actually non-binary, and that they very much came [to the conference] in an aggressive nature to take space.”
These people were commenting on anonymous profiles. How do we know that these people were lying about their gender identity? They could have very well just be the attendees who self-identified as male.
This is just disgraceful. I understand times are tough, but to basically ruin an event just for your own personal gains. It’s just not right.
Is there any way this can be prevented in the future?Is there any way this can be prevented in the future?
Unfortunately, I can’t think of any way to add prevention measures that wouldn’t also open the door for some insanely transphobic practices. I think this is one of those things where you have to really rely on good faith behavior from the local community/people signing up for the event
I have never encountered anything in my life that ran on good faith that wasn’t immediately turned into a trainwreck.
I can understand that sentiment. Plenty of things running on good faith have been chugging along just fine, and considering this conference has been happening annually since 2006 without any prior issue like this worth noting, it seems like that’s been doing a pretty good job up until now. Again, not sure what measures could be taken that wouldn’t also be incredibly invasive, transphobic, or a combination of the two.
Well, I suppose it’s a matter of whether or not the length of good years mitigates the problems created by a bad one. I didn’t see them mention any steps to mitigate this in the future so hopefully they come up with something, as this will likely end up being the same result so long as job conditions stay as they are.
Yeah, I dunno what can be done to prevent this in the future but hopefully the event organizers can come up with something that doesn’t amount to a “you must look -this- feminine to enter” sign by the entrance lol
I’d need to know more. A lot of people in tech are assigned male at birth, but identify as either non-binary or trans. There is also another lot of toxic “tech bros”, but unless this was specifically a “woman is only one that can give birth” event, or the ones sneaking in were of the toxic kind, I otherwise don’t see the problem.
These guys were toxic. Apparently women were getting shoved out of the way, and men were jumping over escalators to get in line first, cutting in front of people, and generally being entitled jerks.
https://www.404media.co/grace-hopper-celebration-conference-anita-b-2023/
That sounds awful. Sniping the tickets then reselling them, is an extra low. Sounds like the organizers messed up things big time, and the worst came out of the woodwork to take advantage.
You’ve got a point, and individually I wouldn’t dare to question someone’s gender (I barely have a grip on my own :)
All I have is the article provided. A little searching did get me to this article which details some very awful behavior though.
I guess it’s more that the purpose for this entire event, to give (trans)women and non-binary people opportunities to establish a career in tech and to celebrate them, is being subverted. Space and time was limited and the extra influx of men (who clearly weren’t there for the main purpose but to job hunt) put a big strain on both.
There’s not much you can do about it, but that doesn’t make it right.
Agreed. Desperation or entitlement (the admission fee makes me think the latter)? Either way, I don’t think I could imagine being at a level of either to intrude like that.
>Promotes self id for nonbinary
>Event is for nonbinary people
>Get upset when people identify as nonbinary and attend the event
I’m not sure I’m seeing why people are upset?
People are upset because a lot of masc-presenting people crowded the job fair, cut in line, and shoved people out of the way. Others who were attending expected the conference to be a place safe from that sort of aggression & it wasn’t.
The people attending where mostly just cis men not non binary.
I don’t know how you get the idea that suddenly lots of people start identifying as non binary when the event is open for men.
Next time this happens simply slaughter the invaders and bath in their blood.
people love making shit like this the problem of non-binary people who are assumed to be men and trans women who are assumed to be men instead of just kicking people who behave badly by pushing and shoving from the event. it really has played into the division that transphobes are trying to sow.
$1,298 for the Orlando event 😱
A free event I went to this year had the same thing happen. They didn’t have room for everyone because so many men showed up.
