Honestly fuck the American tipping culture in general.
I tip in a lot of cases, but there are several where I wonder if I should stop - specifically in the case where I’m simply picking up food that I had ordered. I saw some people saying the “rule” is something about 10% in that case. I have no idea what others do.
I’ve heard some people tell me they never tip - period, including when dining in. Often they just seem like misanthropes and/or extremely petty and cheap; more recently, it’s been something something woke libs, “no one wants to work anymore”, Gen Z/Gen Y or some other alt-right horse manure.
However, I do wonder if I’ve been tipping too much for situations that don’t require any tipping at all.
I absolutely will not tip for carryout or counter service, and I’m a very generous tipper otherwise. The only exception is if I’m for some reason paying cash, then maybe I’ll drop the change in the bucket.
You don’t get an attaboy for pouring me a coffee or grabbing a bag off a shelf and handing it to me.
What about if they made a coffee drink (not just black)? Just curious. I’m on the fence about tipping at coffee shops already tbh
If it’s super persnickety? Absolutely. One of those mile-long Starbucks receipt drinks should 100% have a tip. But a drip coffee and a muffin? No.
Also, if the barista is super special or something, sure that’s a tip.
From my experience in working in restaurants, generally the bussers and servers are the ones who rely on tips most as their hourly rate is abysmally low, whereas Togo specialists are paid a more standard rate.
I worked pizza for 10yr, nah don’t tip for counter service, only delivery/actual servers. The cooks don’t get tipped out, and if there’s no server, I’m not tipping the phone bitch (gender neutral) for picking a box up off the counter behind them and handing it to me.
I stopped going to a restaurant after the employees said I was a shitty person for not tipping a girl who walked the food to my car $5. It was a $15 order. All she did was walk 50 feet. I get $10 an hour to break my back all day. Fuck you.
She probably got paid like $4 an hour to serve people food.
You’re not wrong for not tipping $5. She wasn’t wrong for wanted/needing/hoping for a 33% tip.
The employer is likely in the wrong for running a restaurant where it’s staff are specifically underpaid to put the burden on their customers to pay them so don’t go broke/stay broke.
So don’t work that job. Shit pay should result in nobody working there.
It shouldn’t result in an expectation of the customers to pay your wage in an unspoken random amount on top of their bill
don’t work that job
Unionizing across the industry and striking would go a longer way towards that goal.
And it shouldn’t result in workers being paid an unlivable wage but here we are…
So don’t work that job. Shit pay should result in nobody working there.
Oh yeah everyone can just go to the job store and get a new job at-will and there are absolutely no external factors that could impact that. Clearly they work for minimum wage + tips at a thankless job serving people like you out of their passion for the work.
Yes, jobs are extremely easy to come by everywhere and everyone gets to do their ideal work, anytime they want.
If you didn’t get tips would you work for a restaurant for an abysmal wage? Or look elsewhere
Strap on your job helmet!
It shouldn’t, no. But there’s a $2.13 an hour minimum wage for tipped employees. Employers have to fill the gap to $7.25 if tips don’t cover it, but the simple matter is the law facilitates the expectation customers pay tips.
7 States and DC don’t have a tipped minimum wage.
In CA it’s $15.50 currently with our without tips.
43 states do.
And don’t forget the colonies of puerto Rico and Guam
TIL!
In some states, if reported tips don’t make up the gap between the tipped minimum and regular minimum then the employer is required to cover the difference.
It’s almost like there are 50 states or something…
Dude don’t be an ass you know what I am saying. 43 states don’t do what you’re talking about. 7 do. That’s not “many” and many of don’t live in those places.
Uh huh.
So stop working those jobs.
You’re literally agreeing to work for $2.13 an hour. Would you do that at any other job? Fuck no!
Anything else you get is just kindness.
I mean, I don’t. I know people who have had to work terrible jobs serving food because there are work requirements to their medicaid benefits and such.
It’d be great if exploitative jobs were eliminated. But the legal minimum is generally what the market pressures businesses to run with.
It’s not always a choice
There’s always a choice. Nobody HAS to work in a restaurant for tips
This is profoundly ignorant. Sorry, it just is. You need to read up on this stuff man.
you got a source for that statement?
She wasn’t wrong for wanted/needing/hoping for a 33% tip.
33% tip is absolutely ridiculous
Is there some world where the cost of increasing employee pay isn’t also going to “burden” the customer with commensurate higher costs for the service/goods? Getting rid of tipping is a fine idea for many reasons, but not because it’s a cost burden for customers. The customer will partially pay the wages of employees for services they use and goods they consume, either through tipping or increased costs.
The reasons to get rid of tipping is not to save customers money.
The burden I meant wasn’t the money spent itself but the responsibility to cover it directly.
In the context of wages not rising with the costs of living, employers increasingly are passing the responsibility to pay their tipped employees onto consumers, intentionally or not.
If the employer pays their employees a living wage and increases their costs, then they are taking direct responsibility. In that environment you don’t even need to eliminate tipping. Tips would be the bonuses they’re (culturally) intended to be.
So you’re not even actually talking about tipping at all. You’re just saying you want a minimum wage to be a living wage. Unless you’re implying that minimum wages jobs that don’t pay a living wage and that you don’t expect to tip are fine, and I’m confident that’s not what you mean.
A an European, where mandatory tipping is not a thing, I find this practice of outsourcing the payment of restaurant employee’s salaries to customers absolutely stupid.
I really can’t understand how either customers or employees are letting this go on.
If one isn’t able to pay their employees a living wage they should just pick another fucking thing to do tbh.
At the very least this needs to be spoken out loud and understood by everyone.
The customer is forced to subsidize the employer and those that suffer from this, the employee, typically blame the customer. The employer is the problem here, not the customer.
The employer is the problem here, not the customer.
That’s the first place I would apply the blame to, but, also a little bit on the employee, for either not being able to negotiate their salary better, or for not being part of a union that can do the negotiation for them.
The employer should share the wealth better though, that’s for sure.
Employees actually fight to defend their tips, as they mean a much better income than the wage they could negotiate, even with unions. Customers are the most impacted here, and can’t do much to change anything, except either stop using the service altogether, or stop tipping.
as they mean a much better income than the wage they could negotiate, even with unions.
Citation required.
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Mandatory tipping isn’t a thing anywhere at all. And if it were, it wouldn’t be tipping at all…it would just be a component of the price. It’s socially expected, but not mandatory.
I also don’t know how people let this go on though. The craziest part is tippers think they have the moral high ground over a person who doesn’t tip, when in fact it’s the opposite. Tipping is fundamentally unethical.
Mandatory tipping isn’t a thing anywhere at all.
Not true, I’ve been to several restaurants that have small print on their menu along the lines of “a gratuity of X% will be automatically added to your bill”, sometimes for parties over Y, sometimes after Z o’clock, sometimes just in general
That’s just part of the price at that point. Sneaky for sure, and I wouldn’t want to eat there… but it isn’t a tip by definition.
Gratuity is a fancy word for tip. It’s a separate line item, no different than if you’d written it yourself when paying by card, except it’s not voluntary.
My point is the actual definition of both gratuity and tip requires they be optional. Those businesses are using the word incorrectly, but that doesn’t change the definition.
Just consider that a “hidden fee”. You’re probably already paying hidden fees on your cellphone bill, ISP bill, flights, hotels and Airbnb’s. Shouldn’t be too much of a stretch to get over it.
As an European, I have made the mistake of leaving a tip… and I have been given a tip… and have talked to others who got tipped… and our consensus is that it’s an offensive way of attempted slavery.
If I do a job, I’m doing my job as specified, for the agreed upon price, take it or leave it. I’m not lowering the price to lure a customer, expecting they’ll suddenly appreciate my work so much that maybe they’ll decide to pay me more. If they don’t think I’ll do a good job from the beginning, they can go elsewhere. If for some reason I don’t do a good job, they can have their money back, that’s on me to make sure it doesn’t happen. If I did a good job, and they don’t think so, we can meet in court.
That anger would be better directed at the corporations who have used propaganda to get people to subsidize the wages of their employees further and further.
The person you’re shitty with is just trying to get by, same as you.
Then why would they direct their anger towards him for not tipping? It’s not his fault. It’s not like they’re forming a union and demanding appropriate wage. At this point, steadily increasing tips are just shifting more corporate responsibility onto consumers.
I agree, both of them should be directing their frustration on the corporations that have forced them to subsidize wages.
No you don’t, stop lying
So the solution is for you to stop tipping people yet still continue giving your money to the business that expects tipping?
See, even this argument, while it makes sense in that I should utilize my money to further businesses I have moral agreement with, is another way to put the onus of paying a living wage to employees back onto me.
I sympathize with everyone pulling down a working wage, but… When I need vacation time or cost of living increases or healthcare, or whatever… Are food service personnel expected to drop what they’re doing and join me on the picket line?
The only solutions I can think of would be far more universal than me not visiting a certain taco bell or tipping 40 percent. There are billions of us. Maybe it’s time for a universal union or boycott brigade or something? Change needs to happen on a grand scale, not be argued about on Lemmy. But, we all have shit to do and it’s almost the weekend.
If there is a massive mobilization effort for enough people to stop tipping collectively I’d be on board but that doesn’t exist. So the people refusing to tip yet continuing to frequent these establishments while claiming moral highground are just hurting hard working people. I hate tip culture too but to not participate on an individual basis is inherently selfish once you understand how the system works.
Comb this thread. Find one acceptable comment explaining why they refuse to tip and how their actions help in the slightest. I agree the burden shouldn’t be on us but the solution isn’t to turn it around on other victims of this system.
Isn’t it though? If the only thing keeping that whole system running is my subsidy, which, to remind you, is intended to be a gratuity based on how I felt about the services (which people seem to forget is what the definition of a tip was supposed to be based on rules we agreed on as a society), then why not remove it and let the system topple?
For what it’s worth, I worked deliveries for quite some time, and dealt with douchebag customers and muggings, etc. I never tip under 20 percent unless you do something to thoroughly piss me off. But posts like this are ridiculously entitled to money that I frankly don’t owe anyone based on social contract.
I like how you talk, and carry yourself through this type of conversation. You word things in a way I could never come up with. If there was a way to subscribe to users’ comments, I would yours.
I think you’re missing my point, but in your defense, a lot of people are. My saying that stiffing people their tips is wrong does not mean I support the system of tipping. I would be very happy to remove it. But as it stands, it’s still the law of the land. It’s literally baked into US tax law. To not participate does not tear it down, it just punishes people who depend on it. So I don’t accept “I want to end tipping. Therefore, I don’t tip“ as a reasonable stance.
People are conflating my stance of “don’t stiff people on their tips“ with “I support tipping culture.“ That is not the case. Businesses should pay a living wage. This $2.13 nonsense is absurd.
I mean, two way street wouldn’t you say? Even with that perspective I wouldn’t go back to a place that shames you for tips. I’ve never in my life heard of giving a tip for curbside pickup, every major restaurant chain is doing it free these days. By all means I’ll tip a driven delivery or waited table, but curbside pickup?
Call it whatever you want, it’s what corporations have done in the U.S.
I’m just saying, have a little compassion for people who are very likely in the same boat you find yourself in.
Whatever compassion is there is gonna be gone when they act like what commenter above described.
I get $10 an hour to break my back all day.
That’s a you problem. Walmart starts at more than that.
They should just go get a better job. Apparently that’s a reasonable solution.
that happened
Nothing ever happens!
This whole thread is people railing against a strawman/implying they’re somehow sticking it to businesses to justify their not wanting to tip. It’s pathetic.
You should learn how to read a room.
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Appreciate the input
Service people: “I hate when customers stiff me on a tip or leave a really lousy one.”
Me: “Ok, let’s eliminate/discourage tipping then and just factor a percentage increase into the item prices on the menu instead.”
Service people: “No way, I’ll make less money that way!”
You can’t win, man. I’ve tried to argue with them before. They get one table in a blue moon with added gratuity plus somebody who tips really well on top and they don’t want to let that go. Bartenders are especially contentious about giving up tipping because whale drunks subsidize their entire paycheck.
Essentially, they want all the upside of guilting people into leaving a bigger tip without the downside of occasionally getting somebody who decided that the price on the menu is exactly what they’re going to pay when the bill comes.
Well then if $5 is as good as zero, then you’ll get zero.
This is a big problem with the growing popularity of service fees. Instead of raising wages employers are adding service fees to push labor costs on to the customer; which is already what tipping is. So, they raise the cost of goods for more profits, add service fees to increase wages without increasing labor costs, and then the customer has to decide if they’re going to top or not. It’s a hell of a decision because the worker and the customer are both already getting fucked, and the customer then has to decide which one of them is gonna get a little more fucked than the other.
Yep. They are basically redirecting the employee’s frustration with low pay onto the customers. Not making enough money?..let’s blame the customers and not who I work for.
Yeah, I see these mandatory 4% surcharges at restaurants now and it’s like… why not just raise your damn prices? I’m gonna deduct that shit from my 20% tip.
Labor costs are already entirely on the customer. Employers don’t pay their employees with money that grew on trees; they’re paying with a chunk of the business revenue, all of which originated from the customers to begin with. There’s no functional difference in the finances between abolishing tipping but bumping up all your prices or maintaining tipping, except that tipping represents one additional exchange of money, and people don’t like that. When people have already decided to buy something, it feels bad to be asked for money a second time, even if, in the alternative situation where that expense was included in the original price, they’d be spending the same amount of money.
When people have already decided to buy something, it feels bad to be asked for money a second time
Sounds like a functional difference to me that impacts the transaction. And the psychology involved is more than that because most people are manipulated by the up front prices and don’t properly factor in the more hidden secondary fees. Not to mention that when it comes to tips this second ask is technically voluntary and just against social and moral expectations to refuse, so it essentially rewards the people who don’t care about the employees and refuse it.
It is meaningful, I agree, but the objections should be on that basis, not that tipping represents some kind of gross economic injustice. I think, fundamentally, being asked for money feels bad, and people are trying to re-interpret that as some kind of injustice imposed on them, rather than acknowledging that it’s just a slightly different and mildly annoying way to distribute essentially the same cost. When you actually poll tipped workers, they tend to be against removing tips because it allows them to make substantially more than a fixed rate would.
I don’t want to blame the individual too much, but it’s really not that hard to factor in a potential tip into your decision making process, or to simply hit $0 on the iPad if you don’t think the interaction merited a tip (no, I’m not going to tip you for ringing up a bag of coffee that I picked up off a shelf at a cafe, for instance). My loose understanding is that customers have started to reduce or decline tips for a lot of these more trivial interactions, so I’d expect some kind of market equilibrium to emerge at some point. It does somewhat represent those more easily guilted or manipulated effectively subsidzing those who aren’t, which is perhaps a little iffy, but I’m not really gonna shed any tears over it.
Employers don’t pay their employees
We knew that, no need to comment about it.
An incredibly common complaint when people discuss tips is the perceived injustice of having to pay employees’ wages when the onus of that should be on the employer. It’s literally been brought up in this thread multiple times, including the comment I replied to.
So no, I’m not actually that convinced that people really understand it. While there is a social and psychological difference in tips vs raised prices that is meaningful, the economics are essentially the same, so appealing to some sense of economic justice really doesn’t make sense. People continuously talk about how employers simply need to abolish tipping and pay their workers more, seemingly unaware that that would be directly financed by higher prices roughly equal to the tips they’re already paying.
Or, you know. Tighter profit margins.
Ask your damn employer for a living wage, not the customer.
And if your employer won’t…just quit. Yes, quit. That’s how they will be convinced, not by asking nicely.
Or start talking about unionization. It might work or they might fire you and you might get unemployment or even a retaliation lawsuit depending on where you are.
I would definitely support unionization too. But unions fundamentally depend on the threat of people striking/quitting.
Yeah, exactly.
If you’re not going to tip out of some faux moral outrage against the practice then you shouldn’t frequent the businesses that use tips to get around paying a living wage.
The only way to get employers to change what they do is to get the employees and/or customers to make them change.
Customers can sue, boycott, give them a PR black eye that investors won’t like, etc.
Employees can unite, demand a fair wage, walk out, and/or form a union.
Note that making up for an employer’s refusal to pay a fair wage is not in the customers’ “job description.”
Unfortunately for the employees in tip-heavy industries it’s getting out of hand. Fuck employers making me pay ever larger tips so they don’t have to pay a fair wage and the associated taxes and benefits. It’s not moral outrage, it’s outrage at being fleeced at every turn so the people in charge can keep more money while fucking the rest of us.
Grow some balls and start a union, stop whining about pay while taking the customers’ hard earned cash because it’s easy to shit on them instead of taking a stand against the boss man.
The only way to get employers to change what they do is to get the employees and/or customers to make them change.
You just stiffing a random employee is not going to change anything. I know you don’t believe it will. That’s preposterous.
Grow some balls and start a union,
Who’s shifting the burden on who now? Are you doing anything to help end tipping culture? And what’s with the needless emasculation?
All I read is someone trying to make someone else responsible for the hard work of getting a better wage.
All I’m reading is a sad attempt to create moral highground where there is none. Once again, I know you aren’t so naive, so narrow-minded, as to believe that your not tipping someone is doing literally anything good. No way you believe it is helping to end tipping culture/improve wages. I know you don’t believe that.
Deflect. Deflect. Deflect.
You’re certainly making a case for obstinacy.
What am I deflecting? What you’re doing is helping nobody. You’re just being selfish.
Do you actually believe that not tipping is helping improve those employees lives?
Naw, I’m just going to continue coming and not tipping. And then your employer will force you to continue serving me anyway lol, so you will. And despite this, you’ll side with the employer who forced you to serve the not tipping asshole guy. It’s actually pretty funny the mental gymnastics in play here.
And you’ll continue to get shitty service. You’ll be the last one served a beer/drink even if you were there before someone else, that side of ranch you wanted will come out when you have only one or two bites left (or better yet if you waited for the ranch to eat, when it’s cold), and my employer won’t fire me because I always show up on time and people who tip even halfway decently rant and rave about me. So you’ll stop coming in and then I don’t have to deal with your tip-less ass. If you like shitty service, keep doing you (or frequent places that don’t ask for tips).
No no, I’ll just complain to your manager if that happens… it doesn’t though in my experience. I don’t have any interest in getting you fired btw, but your manager will tell you to serve the customer since it’s literally the job they pay you for. You literally signed up for this. And if the manager doesn’t care, the owner will probably be upset with the manager since they are interested in making money and losing customers who pay in full wouldn’t help them make money.
So what next… a threat to spit in my food or otherwise biohazard contaminate in some other way so I stop coming in? Just because I paid full price for the items I ordered? Does that actually seem reasonable to you?
Oh you’ll be served, just last and slowly, so no I won’t be fired. Because again, in an industry with high turn over I show up on time and most customers leave me glowing reviews. So you’ll just continue to get shitty service to the point where you’ll probably stop coming in. Your order will be slightly (sometimes even completely) wrong, things will take forever to get to you. You’ll complain to the manger/owner, they’ll “have a talk with me”, but nothing will change and I won’t be fired. I guarantee you they’d rather lose one shitty customer than a good worker. And you can rant until you’re blue in the face about how if I do these things to you I’m not a good worker, but in an industry where tipping is standard and those who tip are getting excellent service, I am indeed a good worker. And since most people tip, most people get excellent service. You’re delusional if you think your non-tipping ass is getting me fired. You’ve clearly never worked in the industry. But please, enjoy your (probably cold) food and being the customer every server hates.
If my order is wrong/cold I’ll just send it back. You really shouldn’t’t intentionally waste food like that! Especially because your manager will make certain I get what I ordered, they always do. But hey, maybe if you make the wrong order something you want to eat yourself … you might get a free meal out of it or something. And I hope you do, since you aren’t being paid fairly.
Again, as I clearly said already but you missed somehow, I’m not trying to get you fired or in trouble at all. That is not even slightly my goal. I’m just trying to get the chicken nuggies I actually ordered for the price listed on the menu. And I always do, every single time.
Feel free to let me know the name of the restaurant and I’ll come prove it to you if you like. And I’ll even make clear I’m not tipping before I order anything.
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It’s clear most of them have no idea how the industry works either; claiming bull shit like the cooks don’t care if they tip, that probably even prefer it that way since it doesn’t go to them. But the cooks DO get a cut of the tips! Just a bunch of selfish, delusional, cheap assholes.
This thread was very sad to see. I know some people don’t tip but man the reasoning and entitlement I’m seeing is something else
The business transaction was between me and your employer. Not me and you. You are just their employee. I always pay my bill in full and have never stiffed anyone.
If your employer doesn’t pay you fairly, I’d suggest not working there. But I quite like the food so I’ll keep going, especially since how am I supposed to know if they aren’t paying you fairly? I’m not privy to your wages. And it’s not like the people doing the hard work of cooking that food or delivering the ingredients or cleaning up afterhours or even the people who physically built the restaurant itself give a fuck if I don’t tip. They probably prefer it. And yet, all those people work harder than you and play a much bigger part in my overall dining experience. But your work is also appreciated, so thank you. But no, I’m not tipping you if I’m not tipping the person who made this delicious meal in the first place or tipping the person who made this super comfortable chair I’m sitting on. It’s just not right and I have ethics.
You clearly have no idea how the industry works. In most places bartenders, cooks, and bussers are tipped out from the servers tips. They each get a certain percent of total tips the server made that night. So the person who made the food DOES get that tip you leave, as does the person who made your cocktail, and the person who cleaned up after you. So to say they prefer you don’t tip is utter bull shit. Get your cheap ass off that high horse. Your protest is nothing but you being selfish and grasping at any excuse to justify your shitty actions.
Ummmm I literally worked in the industry myself… which is exactly why I’m against tipping. I’m fully aware of the ‘tip out’ process. And you know as well as I do the vast majority goes to servers. And, at least in my experience, 0% went to after hours cleaning crew. And definitely none went to the chair manufacturer or the plumber who fixes the shitters. You can try to justify to yourself as much as you like, but it’s an inherently unfair system. Especially when assholes like me can just get away with tipping $0. Doesn’t seem too fair… and if anyone should be in favour of it, wouldn’t it be the assholes who don’t tip? They are the ones who directly benefiting from tip subsidized meals.
I’m still waiting for someone to explain how a system of inconsistent donation based income is better than a consistent and fair one… no one has even tried yet :(
It’s actually pretty funny the mental gymnastics in play here.
Agreed except it’s not funny, you’re just a bad person.
You’re the one in support of a fundamentally harmful system, not me.
You know what would prevent assholes like me from not paying their ‘fair share’? Not tipping.
Please point to where I ever said I support tipping culture. Because I can show you several comments where I explicitly said I don’t. I’m saying your “protest” is ineffective and selfish.
The act of tipping itself supports tipping culture. Tipping culture literally couldn’t exist without people tipping and people tipping is what allows this culture to continue.
You’re not tipping is not helping to end tipping culture you muppet. You don’t give two shits about them. You just don’t want to pay a tip and are hunting for palatable excuses.
Tipping is a way to take any tension between the employee and the business owner, and between the customer and the business owner, and make it between the employee and the customer.
Exactly. Tipping is fundamentally unethical for all parties involved.
I don’t know if I’d say it’s unethical on the server’s part.
Honestly I don’t think it’s inherently unethical to engage in tip culture as a customer either. That would basically mean never eating out, for Americans.
It’s definitely unethical as a business owner.
The business owner didn’t even play a direct part in any of this. They just put up a job posting for a server for $x/hour and the server accepted the position knowing that was the wage.
The business owner took advantage of social expectations, sure…and yeah it isn’t ethical at all… but they have the least involvement in this whole thing compared to the server and customer.
The business owner took advantage of social expectations, sure…and yeah it isn’t ethical at all… but they have the least involvement in this whole thing compared to the server and customer.
Mental gymnastics. They literally set the wage requiring the “whole thing” between the server and customer
They were only able to set that wage because of the server and the customer.
I’m not at all arguing the business owner is ethical. They are a piece of shit. The entire intention of my argument against tipping is to force the business owner to raise wages. Force. Not ask nicely and hope lol.
They were only able to set the wage so low because they have no conscience that tells them people should be able to afford both food and shelter.
I don’t disagree. But relying on them magically getting such a conscience is naive. I say we force them rather than hoping they do the right thing.
Business owners lobbied to get waiters to be paid below minimum wage. Using the argument that they got tips anyway.
They are the whole reason the tipping culture exists in the US.
And how were they able to make the argument ‘they get tips anyway’? My understanding is it arose during the great depression, and then they kept it going afterwards.
The business owner didn’t even play a direct part in any of this.
Yeah they just make more money because the server and the employer made an agreement whereby the server takes less from the employer and expects more from the customer in return.
Totally not involved at all… just how they want you to think of the situation.
Business owners will do whatever make more money. If a server was willing to volunteer and work for free, or worse pay the business owner $5/h to work there, the business owner would happily take that deal too.
I’ve been very clear the entire time that the business owner is not acting ethically. But they will continue to act like that unless we force them to change.
So it’s up to the server to look out for their interests and demand a better wage. Its not “keep tipping servers more and more because its the path of least resistance to prosperity for servers”.
Lots of jobs don’t pay enough in this country, but for some reason servers believe it entitles them to a donation. This is the status quo servers fought for because it made them more money than most of the rest of the staff until now.
It’s definitely unethical as a business owner.
The business owner took advantage of social expectations, sure…and yeah it isn’t ethical at all…
So you agree, the unethical one is the business owner.
They are acting unethically, yes. But so is anyone else in support of a tip based system.
The owners do it by choice.
The servers do it out of necessity.
I live in Australia. If you ask for a tip here you will be fired or told to fuck off.
the real argument should be “TIPPED WAGE ISNT A REAL WAGE”
This shit is still happening, yet people are still complaining about the restaurant industry crumbling.
Where I live, there isn’t a separate minimum wage for servers, bartenders, etc. Minimum wage is minimum wage across the board. Despite this, tips are still expected because of the US, and certain people complain that the new normal should be 30%.
I’m not broke, but I’m also certainly not rich. If the only options are to throw away money to people earning about the sams amount that I make, or not going at all, I’m not going. I’ll tip well for good/decent service, but an attitude like the one in this post would guarantee that I would never return. I work too hard for my money to be obligated to give it away.
I’ve seen so many articles about Millenials/Gen Z killing various industries. They want us to pay for all of these extras, but with what money? Of COURSE a lot people are going to eventually stop going to these places. Places that tend to have this general attitude close pretty quickly in my city, because there are many places that don’t have that attitude, and are also inviting to customers. Those places get the tips.
I’ll tip a complete stranger before I ever tip someone for being snitty.
Y’all need to unionize.
People need to learn to yell at their boss, not the customer, to get more money in their pocket.
It’s a nice sentiment, but the response is almost always something like “there are many doors in this building that you are free to use. Don’t let it hit your ass on the way out.”
Recently a coworker had a meeting about potential raises as he hadn’t received one in 5 years. They gave him $1/hr raise… for FIVE YEARS. They basically said “take the crumbs or fuck off.”
The secret ingredient is… unions.
I’m baffled that this isn’t already a common thing in that industry. I mean that. I really do.
Everyone who has a job like that is screwing themselves over if they don’t have a union, imo. Unions help you get the good shit, like proper wages, paid sick days, paid vacation days, medical coverage, and more.
You’re only really hurting yourself if you forego unions for the sake of convenience. Maybe it’s a small fee per month, and maaaybe you might have to spend a couple hours over a few weekends to vote/negotiate/ratify, but it will be worth it if you find a good union.
They fight in your corner, and will usually even help you with lawyers, if they don’t already fully provide them for you. This can be very valuable if you don’t earn a ton of money and your employer happens to be an unreasonable arse.
I don’t get it, I really don’t.
Then listen to them
I’m actually working on pushing my coworker out lol I keep asking if he has put applications out elsewhere and I frequently tell him not to stay.
He’s one of my best coworkers and I rely on him for a lot so it’s infuriating to see how little value the management has for him…
IMHO It’s psychological trickery to make customers pay more under threat of making them feel like a bad person. It cleverly shifts costs from business owner to customer.
As in contrast stands asking proper price for well done job. Getting people loyal by quality thus positively motivating them to pay the higher prices.
It’s not tipping culture, it’s underpayment culture.
just an FYI if you didn’t drive my food to me or you didn’t serve me dinner as a waiter or waitress you’re not getting a fucking tip
One of the unsung reasons that Americans eat so much fast food is because, somehow, the tip crap didn’t get into that business model (yet), so if you have $8 for lunch and the McValue Meal costs $7.50 you have lunch money and change coming back, end of story. No tipping, no percentages, no shaming, just buy your food like a regular item and go. It would seem like every place outside the US acts like that, so no wonder we love McDonald’s and shit.
Knock wood and touch brass for luck that it stays that way. I am not tipping at Taco Bell.
I… I think I just managed to actually quit nicotine over this shit. The vape shop suddenly had a tip setup starting in 2020, and the clerk had to push some sort of button to get past me putting “no tip” into the screen, because absolutely not. Now I’ve stopped, and that’s one less tip screen in my face.
I’ve been following inflation and wage growth closely, too. Wage growth has leveled off, inflation is slowly, begrudgingly coming down. Cash money says these tip screens aren’t going away, no matter what.
