Microsoft, doing it’s part to make the world a better place.
No it won’t.
240 million grandmas, cheapskate businesses, and cash-strapped public schools will continue to use whatever operating system their computers already have, forever, until they break, security implications be damned.
yeah, other than the obvious “haha-ing in Linux” (which… I also use Linux) - the REAL answer is people will just keep using the outdated Windows until THAT computer dies it’s natural death.
Windows
10XPTook this picture a couple of days ago:
This is a huge business opportunity for someone with the know-how. They should offer a consulting service that does the following:
- Catalogs the software your company is using.
- Identifies which ones have native Linux versions, which ones work well under WINE, and which ones will need to be replaced with either a different native application or an online equivalent.
- Installs and configures Linux with a Windows-like UI on your old systems, and gets them set up with the replacement software.
Offer a support contract that severely undercuts anything Microsoft is
gougingselling. Offer basic training, too.Anyone who does that can make bank.
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Support is a major cost/pain point, that Linux pushers just don’t get.
They’ve never worked in enterprise (or hell, even in SMB IT). Moving from windows doesn’t make sense. It’s a lot if cost, up front, to take on lots of risk.
I’m not sure Linux will ever significantly compete with Windows for the desktop. At a minumim it would require a single shell to become dominant, in addition to all the compatibility issues you mention.
Then there’s management: Windows has SCOM, with a well-established app packaging/distribution model, settings config, user management (AD/Exchange), etc, etc.
Linux is fantastic as a base OS for other stuff. Like Proxmox/TrueNAS, or to use as a server with containerized services. There’s a million ways Linux is the answer, a much better one, than Windows - largely in the server/services hosting realm
You never used Linux then. There are well defined packages in the way Windows is trying to get with their store apps and chocolatey can mimic if you build the packages. You could also look up containers, flatpaks etc. Similar to how Windows has msis and store apps and exes.
Linux has Foreman plus puppet. Or chef or Ansible. You can also use those on Windows.
The idea that a company could not decide their shell standards or their support company or people for Linux is like saying they can’t handle the competition in fleet vehicles or cloud providers or pen companies.
Like he said as the second sentence of his comment…
You’ve never worked in enterprise then.
These solutions are skipping the majority of the core problems he mentioned. And even the problem you’re trying to solve here isn’t even fully solved by this solution. You’re taking a narrow sliver of one point in his argument and arguing about that and just tossing out the rest. Even if we accepted your proposal, Linux still isn’t enough of an answer here.
What are the core problems I am skipping? That people like to bitch about Microsoft just like they bitch about gas prices but don’t take any steps to address the issue?
Look we suck it up on Windows for very specific legacy software, but every year more and more LoB apps are web apps, either we write them that way or they’re cloud versions. These all work fine on Linux and Mac, you do not need Windows.
We are even seeing companies like Autodesk provide some products on Mac, and there are competitors on Linux too.
If you actually used Microsoft in the enterprise you would also be up to speed on how they are pushing against “over management” of the fleet, and you should just use update rings and intune and stop wasting time with SCCM / MCM / Whatever it’s called this year. This argument about managibility is Microsoft 2005, not Microsoft 2025. Linux has more management now than Microsofts modern management suite, by design. And if you’re using 3rd party to fix that on windows, you are not just fighting Microsoft but you can not then disregard 3rd party on Linux.
The problem with this argument is not that I am saying you can do everything you can do with Windows on Linux, just like there’s a lot you can’t do on Windows you can on Linux. I am saying that it’s practically like Dodge vs Toyota trucks. There’s way more of an overlap than people like to admit.
Maybe there is a specific app you all are thinking of that you need Windows for, but I don’t actually think the average person needs Windows anymore except inertia. And the needs are going down as more stuff is cloud available.
Lol, ok, sure,right.
Show me a company that’s willing to take the risks you’re talking about. Because it may work today, but what happens tomorrow when they acquire another company with systems that simply aren’t linux-friendly
Laughable.
Go home, let the adults talk. Kids like you always come in with grandiose ideas thinking everyone else just doesn’t “get it”. No, we’ve seen these ideas, but there are risks, requirements, etc that you simply aren’t aware of, yet in your hubris think you know better.
“Never used Linux”, really son? Had my first UNIX class when you were shitting in your diaper, and was doing Fortran on a Sperry Rand UNIVAC well before you were born.
Any other snarky comebacks?
Oh, Linux now has package management… Like Windows did pretty much 30 years ago. Wow, yea, you really told me.
Now wait, when you pull a package, which shell is it expecting? How are dependencies controlled in your business environment? Oh, you have to build that in your distribution system? Why would anyone switch, do all that work, when they already have a Windows infrastructure that does the same?
Oh, wait, where’s CAD? How about supporting, software with license dongles that control CNC machines? Oh, yea, practically no vendor supports Linux this way.
Are you paying for all your users to learn a new system? How about all the poor performance from end users because things work differently now?
How about the thousands of spreadsheets in a company that now get mangled by Open/Libre, let alone the inability of either to handle tables (which basically every Excel spreadsheet has).
Tell me, what do you do when you meet that must-have app, with zero choice (say, regulatory compliance) that lacks a Linux option. Oh, and doesn’t like RDP?
Let’s go into a legal environment and push Linux… Oh you’ll love that.
The way you overlook basically everything speaks volumes.
I’ve been hearing “Year of the Linux Desktop” since, well, forever. After 25 years it still ain’t happened.
I think your info is out of date, at least from what I see. Schools are going to Chromebooks because that’s all the budget allows. I think it’s going to be scary when these kids enter the workforce and can’t use Windows office.
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Sigh, yes everyone knows that ChromeOS is built on linux. That’s not what people mean when they say running linux.
AFAIK Chromebooks can run Office 365 (the online one, whatever it’s called now). Microsoft had to do that to try to keep Office relevant and accessible.
How do you break away from something you were programmed to use?
You don’t, you get the next generation to use your product first. They start with chromebooks in elementary school now. That’s the first computer kids will have and likely have all the way to grade 12 for school (after that is who knows what). Kids today will be programmed to use Chromebooks, not windows. That’s my point.
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Have you used a modern version of Linux or Windows? You can basically use most Linuxes like Android with a guide app store, and there’s almost no way to break it. Windows also will still let you be admin and let you break it. Neither is particularly easy to break anymore.
Peripherals certainly do not just work on Windows. More and more I fight with getting anything to work on a clean Windows OS install. First I have to go find a network driver and copy it via USB. Then hope Windows will find drivers from there, which often it doesn’t get good ones for say Nvidia. Printers often take me to the manufacturer website and hope. For things like mice or Wi-Fi adapters Linux just works, same hunt for less standard stuff.
Maybe I just deal with a wider array of hardware but to say it plug and play on windows and not Linux is just not true.
For someone who just uses Facebook…there is no learning Linux. I moved my mom from XP to XFCE and Firefox just copied right over. She has a lot less issues with Enterprise Linux than she did with XP and Facebook still just works like 8 years later.
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I think you don’t have any idea on what modern Linux desktop is doing. For most people, installing any sort of drivers on Linux is something of the past. If you use a beginner’s friendly distro like Linux Mint or PopOS stuff like Nvidea drivers will be taken care of or you’re guided through it. Mint offers Timeshift out of the box and guides you to set it up for easy restores may you break your system one day (or an update does).
In theory, the store has virtually every application your version supports and that you ever want to use. No hunting on the internet etc. With Flatpaks, even dependency issues (however rare nowadays) are essentially a thing of the past. The user doesn’t need to know what that means, they can just click install on their application store as they’re already familiar with on their mobile device.
Doing more “complicated” stuff and breaking it is just simply your fault then. I have worked end user customer support and repair for a few years and shit like that happens all the time on Windows. Very few clean or wholly functional Windows installations I have seen. The UAC just presents you “yes/no” and install whatever the fuck you want. People click yes on everything.
I have a little headphone amp that has always been a huge fight to get to work on Windows with its drivers, but on Linux I later realized, wait, it just worked. Since Windows 10 drivers have been much better on Windows too, credit where it is due.
Linux has made enormous strides the last couple of years of becoming more general user friendly. And it’s only getting better.
Does this mean it’s all roses and happiness? No, of course not. Once a driver doesn’t quite work and you don’t have the Mint driver utility to help you out it’s a bit of a pain. You don’t need the CLI on desktop at all nowadays, but guides on how to do things usually are, because it’s universal. Problem is, the CLI scares people. Linux DEs are not Windows. It’s simply not the same, however much Mint is friendly to it, or Zorin’s efforts, it’s still different. There’s no hardware compatibility guarantees on any system, if you’re not using a Tuxedo, System76 or Framework system. App compatibility and sometimes there’s no app available. Wine and Bottles work pretty well, but that’s a little more advanced.
It’s not a drop-in replacement. That’s just how it is.
In an enterprise and business environment it’s still tricky. For personal use for a user that will happily use a Chromebook, they can use a suitable Linux distro (that’s literally what ChromeOS is btw, it being able to run Android apps was added later, it’s not Android). Yeah, don’t install Arch or god forbid, Gentoo lmao (unless you wanna have a laugh). If they do email, web-browsing, etc, and they are okay with some change, then Mint will most likely serve them pretty well.
Also, Linux runs Chrome just fine? However much it pains me, I can even install Edge right from the store lol.
Would also need to get a burner phone number w/ answering machine to take calls from 240 million grandmas, cheapskate businesses and cash-strapped public schools for any & all tech support questions until the end of time, because if there was an issue with system stability in any way whatsoever, or if the router went down or the printer stopped working, they’d assume it was the fault of ‘the guy who changed everything’.
Linux is great & everything, but this sounds like a recipe for utter disaster, not a way to make an easy buck.
I can’t agree with this more. People like to sell Linux as a magic bullet, but it does not and will not everything everyone needs without maintenance and people really like to hand wave or downplay that need.
Sure, you could find a solution for what they’re using now. What happens when they need something else and they’re so tech illiterate that they don’t even know what you did to their machine? They wouldn’t even know how to install new software, and if they did, they wouldn’t know they need to click the Linux version, etc. It’s not always about feasibility and available options, it’s often about the fact that people just won’t fucking know what to do. Even if you assume there are enough options available, they won’t know how to do so.
And every step Microsoft takes to shoot themselves in the foot, and every step Linux takes to make this easier, everyone comes screaming about how much this could change things.
But until Linux has a HUGE market share - like in the 30-70 percent range - developers are not going to take it seriously and alleviate this process. Even with how well MacOS does, this is not even a solved problem entirely there - there are still hang ups and still software that doesn’t get released for mac. Linux would have to pass where Apple is today for this to become remotely accessible to an every day person.
And even THEN there’s the question of different Linux distros.
I lived in this town and there was this"computer and pawn" place. They did this to people’s computers. I constantly had people come into the computer place I worked at very confused. Not knowing why they needed a password to install things, where is Microsoft office, how do I print, etc. Most of these people didn’t have the money to put windows back on, but, those that did, did real quick. All this did was scare people away. If we started replacing Linux on people’s computers it needs to come with a intro tech support plan and a short intro class explaining the basics.
At this point the people that benefit the most easily are those who only need email, Web browsing and or are old. People who work off their machine are going to use Windows and that former demographic usually just use their phones or a tablet now. At least in the US
My 76 y/o spouse loves Linux Mint. The 2017-bought desktop was deemed insufficient for Windows 11 and now runs Mint.
If all they use is a web browser and solitaire then putting them on Linux is super easy. Got my dad on Mint for years now. I recommend KPatience for solitaire needs.
If all they use is a web browser and solitaire, they should consider a tablet. Even as a techie, with many devices, I spend the most time using my iPad because it works so well for “media consumption”.
Of course it’s only 6 years old, slowing down, and is no longer supported with patches, so maybe that’s not a solution. At least it’s less to go in a landfill
Reject Windows, emabrace Linux and FOSS Software
It’s beating a dead horse, but there are plenty of user-friendly Linux versions out there that will run just fine on most computers that ran Windows.
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Some very small percentage of people will switch to Linux, the majority of people will just continue to use windows 10.
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They were data mining on non subscribing customers tho, in age of AI nowadays, data mining on real living people is good business
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I’ve never used them tho, most probably USA exclusive thing, i know Azure used in many countries companies on par with aws and Google cloud but it’s first time i hear about entra, didn’t know it existed
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Or folks will just continue to use 10.
Better yet, 7
Win7 crew represent 💃💃💃
Microsoft doing its* part
I built a new PC last year and bought a copy of Windows 11. Holy moly the login process required so much bullshit that I skipped through. It also every few days tries to get me to go through it again. After learning about all the Spyware and other bullshit I decided to just take the plunge back into using Linux as a main OS.
just use linux instead.
why are people allergic to
windowslinux?I get the joke, but lots of people, me included, start to understand why people pay so much for a Mac. It’s not the hardware, it’s not having to deal with Windows.
Not a joke. Linux is genuinely better in most cases, barring some niche, very specific stuff.
I have 20 years of experience in Linux. I’m not the average “I’m using Arch btw” Linux user. I managed several services at work with Linux and have a homelab at home.
If I wasn’t a PC gamer, Windows was gone from my house. That’s how I prefer Linux.
Having said that, your statement is objectively wrong.
my lived experience for the last half decade is… wrong?
i managed servers for a few decades too if thats what matters, and its different from desktop.
You’re changing the environment to favour your fight. I agree with you, 90% of the times in servers space, Linux works better.
not really.
im saying desktop linux is just as good nowadays since the beggining
I wish.
Gaming is the primary driver behind my PC choices by a humongous margin. I’m not really concerned about imvasive anti-cheat software, I don’t want to tinker with settings, I want to turn on my computer and play video games. That means I use Windows.
As someone who just installed Linux Mint as a test and uses their machine mostly for gaming:
Linux is perfectly fine for that, too. I had one minor issue that was fixed by plugging a cord into a different plug on my machine and have otherwise had 0 issues getting things to run on the Linux partition of my system.
I actually have seen mostly better performance in the realm of about 10fps better per game than the Win 10 install on the same hardware
Spent less time tinkering with the settings (done via GUI that makes more sense than windoes’ 15 different settings menus) than I never have in any version of Windows, synched my firefox over, boom.
Not gonna say Linux is perfect for everything but it does seem a lot of people think it’s harder/worse than it is by a mile
That doesn’t compute here. Like I have literally 0 problems with Windows. That’s certainly not been my experience with Linux. Oh bought a new drawing tablet, nah that won’t work. Oh need to update for firmware on a device, yeah better have windows. Oh you bought a recent printer, better not use Linux.
It will be like that as long as people are so used to bad products. Linux will have similar but better support if it has more users. It already improved a lot. This myth of printers/tablets not working got quite old now
For us Linux users it’s just a fire sale. Diet cheap PCs incoming.
I wonder how long it will be until Windows is a subscription based desktop?
It already is, but it isn’t mandatory, yet.
Yes, because normal people always throw PCs away when they stop getting security updates.
Launching Windows 11 in the midst of a semiconductor shortage was such a dumb move on Microsoft’s part, especially when 11 doesn’t really offer that much more than 10. The only real ‘groundbreaking’ new feature (multiple desktops) was something that Linux had fifteen years ago.
Is “multiple desktops” different from virtual desktops? Because i’ve been using virtual desktops in Windows 10 for a while now.
I can barely keep track of my one desktop what are people doing with multiple desktops?
music can stay on one workspace
work on another
messenger on another.
my alt-tab is always in the right order, and accessing specific functions like music or messaging is a whole other key sequence and muscle memory.
I see a lot of people deny articles about “e-waste” calling them clickbait headlines and such. While I do agree there is a clickbait problem, I have to take it into consideration when I’m witnessing the company I work for right now tossing all the office computers in a pile to smash the hard drive. They just got all new computers a year and a half ago, and these are pretty good for an office workhorse. I thought it might be because of some weird HP contract or something, so I asked. But no, turns out some of them can’t upgrade to 11, and they must all go in the dumpster. “HP won’t take them back and it’s easier to just get all new ones.” I’ve heard similar reports from other companies in the area.
Again I do agree there is a clickbait problem, but I think we need to realize that Microsoft and companies like HP know exactly what they are doing to keep the money flowing in.
I feel like MS could avoid everyone’s gripes by simply not charging for their security update program. 7 to 13+ years is going to more than cover when most people would’ve upgraded anyway.
That’s not how software works. Maintaining an OS until the end of time is a real problem.
Should they be maintaining the beloved windows xp still?
Agreed. I’m just looking at the machines that were purchased at the launch of Win 11, but might not have had the proper hardware to transition off 10. I would assume that computers on a that cusp will mostly support 11, but if the extended updates were free, it would ensure those machines would have had 7 years of security updates - which seems like a reasonable lifespan for a computer these days.
Making those updates free would also mean computers that were 13+ years old were also getting security updates, so maybe my recommendation is overkill.
At some point you just need to move on and stop taking customer service calls from people with old hardware.
Agreed. I’m just looking at the machines that were purchased at the launch of Win 11, but might not have had the proper hardware to transition off 10.
Windows 11 launched in 2021. The bare minimum hardware (8th gen intel) is from 2017. If you were buying 5+ year old hardware in 2021 then that’s on you.
Don’t forget the TPM module! Which has also been pretty damn ubiquitous on mobos for a long ass time.
This is all just clickbait and easy upvotes on lemmy with the big pro-linux movement.
TPM is built into the CPU of all 8th gen and ryzen 2000 series CPUs. The module is only needed for older systems.
The module is only needed for older systems.
Not needed at all. If you’re installing it on an older system, you’re already bypassing the requirements so why bother with a TPM?
