See title - very frustrating. There is no way to continue to use the TV without agreeing to the terms. I couldn’t use different inputs, or even go to settings from the home screen and disconnect from the internet to disable their services. If I don’t agree to their terms, then I don’t get access to their new products. That sucks, but fine - I don’t use their services except for the TV itself, and honestly, I’d rather by a dumb TV with a streaming box anyway, but I can’t find those anymore.
Anyway, the new terms are about waiving your right to a class action lawsuit. It’s weird to me because I’d never considered filing a class action lawsuit against Roku until this. They shouldn’t be able to hold my physical device hostage until I agree to new terms that I didn’t agree at the time of purchase or initial setup.
I wish Roku TVs weren’t cheap walmart brand sh*t. Someone with some actual money might sue them and sort this out…
EDIT: Shout out to @[email protected] for recommending the brand “Sceptre” when buying my next (dumb) TV.
EDIT2: Shout out to @[email protected] for recommending LG smart TVs as a dumb-TV stand in. They apparently do require an agreement at startup, which is certainly NOT ideal, but the setup can be completed without an internet connection and it remembers input selection on powerup. So, once you have it setup, you’re good to rock and roll.
It’s at the very least coercion by ways of property damage, at least in sane legal systems.
Also it’s generally not the job of citizens to figure out which paragraph exactly to throw at an accused, that’s what police and prosecutors are for.
The parent commenter asserts that it is a crime. What I essentially said is “prove it”. I assert there is no law that makes this behaviour a criminal offence. Prove me wrong. Don’t say “Well, this is what the law should be”, tell me what the law is.
If you want to talk about what the law ought to be, write to your legislators. It’s not the FBI’s job to write the rules. They only enforce what’s already there.
I don’t think the behaviour is right, and it may be illegal in other ways, but it isn’t a crime, and if it isn’t a crime, reporting it to a law enforcement agency is just wasting your time.
And it is the responsibility of law enforcement to figure that out. If I go to the police and say “that guy stole from me” and the actual criminal case ends up not being for theft but embezzlement, did I waste the agency’s time?
You don’t need to have a law degree to be entitled to file a complaint with the system.
By “illegal in other ways” I mean “creates a civil cause of action”. This is not something the police can help with. You don’t need a law degree to complain but I think you’re just being purposefully obtuse.
Last I checked coercion is a crime over here. Property damage is, too.
You’re one of those people who hear a smoke alarm, want to call the fire brigade, but first wonder whether it’s actually opportune, whether you shouldn’t deal with it yourself, whether the situation is bad enough, aren’t you. The answer is yes it is the department rather moves out too often than not often enough and chalks up burnt potatoes at the bottom of a now dry pot under exercise.
You have a reason to believe that a crime could have occurred because your innate sense of justice got offended. You can articulate which action of a particular entity offended it. That’s enough, they’ll take it from there. Might it go into the bin and you be told “sorry that’s a civil matter”? Yes. But that’s their job. Just as it’s the job of the fire department to deal with you not being able to cook potatoes.
My God. You just used words that you think are criminal offences, and then proclaimed that you think they applied. “Last I checked” my arse, you did not check at all.
And when I tell you to read the statutes and show why you think they apply, you go and say “No, that’s not my job” because you’re either too lazy to Google search the text of the law or you’re afraid of seeing that you wouldn’t be able to justify your point.
You claim this is a criminal offence. You can’t cite or don’t want to cite any criminal statutes substantiating your claim. Instead you just speak out of your ass instead of checking to make sure. The information’s there. You just don’t want to read it.
You’re wrong. Just quit the conversation already. You’re not winning this one.
§§ 240, 303 StGB.
Yes I know that’s German law. I don’t know US law. But I bet if I sold you a fridge and three days later came into your house and said “sign this or I’ll destroy the fridge” that’s a crime in the US. “Computer sabotage” is the rough equivalent of “trespass” in this example, you still have property damage and coercion even if computer sabotage doesn’t apply for some reason.
I ran Google Translate on these:
Firstly, the terms and conditions screen is not “force”. Secondly, the television is not damaged by making you accept such conditions. The software doesn’t work but you don’t own the software, you own the hardware. Even if there is no way to install other software on the system. Thirdly, the terms and conditions originally agreed to allow this (changes to the terms and conditions) to happen. It is not unauthorised. Fourthly, and most importantly, you can just physically click the “agree” button to the terms and conditions to get back the functionality. The remedy is for a court to consider that agreement unenforceable.
Threat of harm. Though “harm” is a bad translation think of it as evil as used in “the lesser evil”. “Do this or I’ll do the nasty” is considered coercion. Wilfully causing a traffic jam can be coercion – ask the climate protestors, they had to argue before court how their use of coercion wasn’t reprehensible (sentence 2). The reason that works is because they can quote a selfless motive, I very much doubt Roku manages to do that.
Also btw there’s an official translation, not that it’s any better at translating “Übel”, though.
If a TV doesn’t TV then it’s damaged. It cannot fulfil its purpose of being a TV, any more. If it requires me to acquiesce to a nasty before it works, it’s functionally not a TV either because I have all right in the world to not tolerate nasty in any way whatsoever.
Copyright, as in the right to sell the software, is a different thing than the use-rights in the software. By selling a TV that contains firmware, requires firmware to fulfil its purpose as a TV, you automatically license the shipped software to be used by the owner/operator of that device. Just as you’re required to deliver functioning hardware if you promise the consumer a TV, so are you required to deliver functioning software, if it should be necessary for the operation of the TV. If the license agreement says otherwise it’s void.
It’s important to distinguish this from computers, which are meant to run user-provided software. But especially as Rokus are (AFAIK) completely locked down and can’t run user-supplied software arguing that it’s a computer is bound to fail.
If the terms and conditions allow me to break into your house and coerce you then those terms are void, and it’s still coercion.
Warranty would be another remedy (at least over here, we have mandatory warranty). Remedy being available doesn’t make something not coercion though, it just means that the attempt failed. But the attempt itself is punishable (sentence 3).
Now, granted, all that may not apply in the US. It really might be legal in the US. But it’s still not the duty of a citizen to know. If the FBI is tired of having to throw those cases into the bin then they’re free to ask the white house to try and get a law passed to make it illegal. Tons of laws are passed like that: It stands to reason that the executive, having to implement law, has some insight and inspiration to give to the legislature when it comes to which laws might be sensible.