It often feels like EV fires make major headlines while ICE vehicle fires go under reported despite being order of magnitude more likely and common. Nice to see an ICE vehicle fire actually making media headlines for a change.
It’s not that odd.
Gasoline and diesel cars have been around and commonly used for 100 years. Every fire station from New York to obscure towns in Arkansas have the equipment to deal with burning hydrocarbons.
Not many fire departments have the equipment handy to put out a battery fire. Some bigger departments do, but not all.
So when Jim Bob puts his truck in the ditch and catches it on fire after a Saturday night at the bar, the local volunteer FD can just roll over there and put it out. But when someone’s EV catches fire, oftentimes all that the local FD can do is make sure the fire doesn’t spread to houses or grass or trees in the area, and the car has to burn all the way down.
I was really hoping for a different type of ICE car to be on fire…
Same … I thought people were setting fire to ICE vehicles.
Yeah I was Hella confused reading this article. Was hoping some hero lobbed a molotov at the fascists.
I had to read the article when I noticed the license plate, though blurred, is absolutely not an American one.
Ah yes, the ECE: externally combusting engine.
ICE fires get the attention they deserve, the difference between an ICE fire and a BEV fire is in the scale and intensity and the fact that a lithium battery fire is impossible to stop with normal firefighter equipment.
BEV fires are orders of magnitude more dangerous and lethal.
Have you ever heard of anyone dying because their ICE car caught fire? This is an issue especially with Tesla, where the manual handles are hidden, preventing people from getting out quickly enough.
In case of a BEV fire, you only have seconds to exit the car, otherwise you are toast.PS:
Just in case someone thinks I’m making anti BEV propaganda, I own a VW ID.4 which I am very happy with.PPS:
My wife once had an ICE car go on fire on her, after going 170 km/h on Autobahn in a tiny 1.1 L car. 😋 but it was easily handled with the fire extinguisher she had in the car, it was taken to a garage, and with new cables and a new battery, the car was fine to use again.Have you ever heard of anyone dying because their ICE car caught fire?
That is not ICE cars but ALL cars. Obviously we already know people die in BEV fires.
If you die in an ICE car fire, the reason is probably that you crashed and are unconscious.I should have been more specific, I meant die in an ICE car fire, as in CAUGHT by the fire unable to get out quickly enough despite being conscious.
Cars crumple when they crash and sometimes the crumpling pins people inside. That’s the whole reason we have the jaws of life. You don’t have to be unconscious to die in a car fire of any type, just unlucky.
Plenty of people have died in ICE fires.
This was half the problem with the Ford Pinto - the big name in burning people alive after minor collisions.
All Detroit cars at that time had the same gas tank design, it’s just Ford was singled out by lawyers because they had more money.
It wasn’t unique in small American cars in those couple decades (notable for rushed designs with an indifference to safety across the board) but the numbers were a bit worse. They stood out for Ford’s extensive crash tests, and well-documented knowledge of the lethal design flaw, their early decision to pay out for deaths rather than make a quite inexpensive design change, and recall, and for the decade of expensive legal battles and PR campaigns where they lobbied against federal rear-end collision safety requirements which would have saved lives and identified the problem. They were happy to throw money at every aspect of the problem except for the part that kept burning their customers alive.
Also it wasn’t just the gas tank design but flaws with the frame and (essentially cosmetic bumper) which jammed every door even in minor rear end collisions.
Also they weren’t singled out, other American companies producing small cars/fire traps did get sued. Ford caught actual criminal charges not because they had money but for the elements above when they came to light.
Their victory (bought with famous lawyers) helped set a precedent that ensured American corporations are an effective shield against liability and real consequences even in truly horrendous deliberate, documented harms.
Did you read it?
As indicated in Figure 13, large truck fires were more likely to begin with the ignition of a tire than other items. Tire ignitions were also more common in bus fires than car fires. The two most common items first ignited among all highway vehicles were (1) electrical wire or cable insulation and (2) a flammable liquid or gas in or from the engine or burner. Incidents where the item first ignited included a flammable liquid or gas were the deadliest. An estimated 50 percent of the civilian deaths occurred in these incidents.
Turns out, when a big tank of gasoline is set on fire, it’s deadly.
Turns out, when a big tank of gasoline is set on fire, it’s deadly.
That has absolutely zero to do with the car which is not a car but a truck being ICE.
Read carefully.
…among all highway vehicles…
That paragraph is about both trucks and cars. The average car has what, a 12 gallon tank of gasoline? That’s an incredible amount of flammable liquid.
What are you on about that electric cars have to be more dangerous for you? Are you heavily invested in an oil company or something?
I mean, being covered in gasoline that is on fire is generally not an easy thing to survive.
Yes and that happens all the time. /s
600 times a year. It happens so frequently, it’s not news, like mass shootings.
Vehicle fires report | NFPA Research https://share.google/BoVl5eecmZQF51wcs
That people were covered in gasoline? I don’t think the stat says that.
It literally does. Hundreds of times every year in the US alone. Car crashes can be pretty fucking horrible, man. Fuel spilling out of the tank is fairly common in bad accidents.
A car fire doesn’t have to mean more than a couple of wires catching fire due to an overheated engine.
It’s not like the infamous beancounter case where GM failed to recall cars where the gas tank had a high risk of catching fire.
Because it was cheaper to pay damages than to repair the car. Car fires are common, but deadly car fires are not.
Just because people die in a car that caught fire, doesn’t mean they died BECAUSE the car caught fire.
That’s the kind of fire we are talking about when an EV catches fire.You’ve made it pretty clear that actual statistics aren’t enough for you to change your mind, so I don’t think there’s any point in continuing this conversation.
This is nonsense. Not getting out because of stupid electric door handles is a problem that’s very specific to tesla, not something that is inherently systemic to the electric drive train. It’s a manufacturer issue, not a propulsion issue. Dying in an ICE fire might result from a bunch of reasons, from unconsciousness to being stuck in a crumpled car to doors not opening simply because they’re deformed.
Battery fires may emit more hazardous fumes but at the same time electric cars are much more unlikely to catch fire. I have never seen statistics that could even remotely suggest battery electric cars are more dangerous - it’s usually quite the opposite.
that’s very specific to tesla,
No Tesla is the worst, but many other brands have copied Tesla in the design of fully electronic door handles.
So much so EU has decided to regulate it, and in China such door handles as the Tesla has are now illegal.but at the same time electric cars are much more unlikely to catch fire.
This is true
many other brands have copied Tesla in the design of fully electronic door handles.
Care to share some examples?
AFAIK KIA and Xpeng, but you’ll just have to look it up, I don’t remember the brands.
I Just know that although Tesla is the worst for hiding the manual, they are not entirely alone in this.
In fact the car I bought is a VW ID.4, and one of the reasons is that the handle although electric can work as manual if the power is out.
This was specifically demonstrated in several car reviews of the car.I tried to look them up but wasn’t really successful… For kia, it seems to be the ev6 that might have them but I found owners that said there’s still a physical connection to open the doors without 12v power. I also found some that said they had issues with a deadlock mechanism that was specifically built to disengage door handles as a security measure, which seems weird enough, but not really what we’re talking about. Xpeng is hard because if you search for that one and electric door handles you end up getting a lot of articles that those types of door handles have been completely banned in China but not really anything specific to xpeng.
The point remains though - even if it’s not exclusively a tesla problem, it’s not connected to the propulsion system either. Electric cars don’t lock you in burning cars because they’re electric. On the opposite, the doors being hooked to the 12v system would make them just as available in combustion cars.
Do y’all keep fire extinguishers in y’all’s cars in DE?
I’m from Denmark but no, it’s pretty rare, but in this case it meant it was a relatively minor fix to get the car going again.
I haven’t seen the evidence to suggest that BEV fires are orders of magnitude more dangerous, as you claim. I have seen the evidence to suggest that they are orders of magnitude less likely.
Yes they burn hotter and are harder to extinguish, but I understand that generally they spread slower and with more warning, allowing greater time for escape (unless you are stuck in a Tesla and haven’t read the manual cover to cover).
ICE cars are more likely to explode, BEV cars take longer (in general) to become fully engulfed.
If there is a credible evidence source / study looking at fatalities per fire (which corrects for the stupid door handles) then I’d be very interested to read it.
My 97 jetta did this in my 20s.
BMW just announced another fire recall.
These cars all have highly pressurized fuel systems and more and more cheap plastic parts connecting them that are designed to fail within a set number of heat cycles. When the plastic cracks, high pressure atomized fuel sprays all over a hot engine. This has been a problem for 15 years, and still plastic connectors are normal.
Reminds me of some good media literacy advice. If you see something bad happen on the news it’s probably not worth worrying about because if it were common they wouldn’t be reporting it. It’s overwhelmingly likely that whatever kills you will be boring.
Its new, needs special equipment which isnt yet standard issue, and burns unstoppably and more ferociously. A fuel tank doesn’t burst into flames if it is pierced. A battery does, and it escalates rapidly.
Most ICE fires come from broken fuel lines which are under 30-60 psi of pressure, spraying fuel air mixture over a hot exhaust manifold.
Lemmy is like Reddit, lots of opinions from people who have no idea how cars work and they think that if it’s not in media, it didn’t happen.
The bigger issue is that every fire department has the equipment to put out a gasoline fire, but not many of them have the equipment to put out a battery fire.
A lithium battery does, and it escalates rapidly
FTFY
Lithium iron phosphate doesn’t typically combust when punctured, so I think you’d still need to add a qualification to that statement.
Lithium iron phosphate doesn’t typically combust when punctured
no, it just releases a toxic gas. Hydrogen fluoride and that is horrific even at low concentrations.
Not really since I didn’t limit it to that, but instead left in the word “batteries” and thus all the additional internal composition & structure they typically have.
A fuel tank often does burst into flames if it is torn open and sprays fuel into the air or on the ground, though. Watch enough NASCAR and you’ll see it for yourself.
It’s also true that explosions are far more likely to occur in an ICE fire than EV fire - EVs tend to smoke and then slowly burn to a more ferocious fire, but in general provide more warning and time to escape than ICE fires (as well as being less likely to happen in the first place). ICE fuel is designed to explode (especially gas / petrol).
No, that’s not actually true. None of what you claim here is true without qualifications that make your statements meaningless.
Here’s your qualifications.
https://www.evfiresafe.com/ev-fire-key-findings
I look forward to your suitably sourced rebuttal.
It’s odd how electric car fires get attention, while petrol is famously non-combustible.
