I’ve seen alot of calls for violence in America. Whether it be directed at the president or Federal officers, many people are advocating for an escalation in response to the current situation.
And believe me, I do understand. what I see happening in America is horrifying. But all I am imploring is to really think about what your asking for. Because you can’t put the genie in the bottle once you’ve left it out.
If you’re really gung-ho about it, go and ask a Veteran of Iraq or Afghanistan about it and see what they think. If anyone will know about it they will.
I am going to link a YouTube Playlist. Its the Associated Press Archives of the Bosnian-Serbian war. Because THAT is what will happen if wide scale violence breaks out. Except what will happen in America will be a hundred times worse.
The Bosnian war was pretty much broken up along ethnic lines. “Well it’s going to be Conservative VS. Liberal” you say. Except it won’t be. It will be anyone having a grudge against someone going after them.
ALOT of personal animosity will be taken out in the first few weeks I feel.
And I think the Seige of Sarajavo will be writ large in American cities across the country. Imagine having to dodge sniper fire on your way to get to your job at Wendy’s.
Because that’s the other thing no one is thinking about. You are still going to have to make a living while this is all going to be happening. And the cost of everything will skyrocket. Shipping will probably have to be escorted from place to place because people will be stealing or even blockading locations because they’re “damn dirty libs” or “Fascist Conservatives” Fresh produce will become a thing of the past.
Canada and Mexico will close their borders due to all the refugee’s trying to cross. so if you thinking of doing it, do it the moment everything pops off because otherwise you won’t get in.
Basically Civil war is going to the worst thing to happen in America in a long time. and the only good that comes out of it will be Americans will finally have first hand experience of real war torn violence. And maybe that will hopefully last for another two hundred years or so.
If America even survives the outcome that is.
Most Americans are victims of a violent regime and not violent themselves. They’re scared and going through something most Canadians and many post-WWII Europeans will never have to deal with in their lifetimes. People are being murdered, and you’re telling the victims it’s their fault and that they’re violent for trying to prepare for a worst-case scenario.
Yes, of course there are other ways to confront this. Yes, I wish the country I was regrettably born in was culturally more like the EU and Canada. But it’s not that simple and I can’t help but feel that this comment is in poor taste.
You missed my point.
You missed mine. Until you find yourself the victim of an authoritarian state you live in starting a Holocaust, you don’t get to make blanket statements about an entire country that lumps the oppressors and the oppressed into the same category.
I’m not denying fear, violence, or victimhood. And I’m not equating oppressors with the oppressed. I should push back on the idea that naming cultural patterns equals blaming victims, or that only people inside the worst possible historical analogy are allowed to analyze trajectories.
I’m talking about how societies slide, not about who deserves what. Those are different conversations. I’ve been on the receiving end of state violence. I’ve marched, been gassed, watched movements radicalize too fast and burn themselves out. That’s exactly why I’m saying this: jumping straight to existential framing and armed horizons doesn’t protect anyone it only narrows the future until only catastrophe is left.
You don’t need to already be in a Holocaust to talk about escalation dynamics. In fact, if you wait until everything is unspeakable, analysis is already useless. Yes, fear is justified and preparation is understandable and necessary. But when fear becomes immune to critique, it stops being a warning signal and starts being a steering wheel.
My point hasn’t changed: there is still space, Real Political Space, for non-violent (not peaceful!) resistance, that can be powerfully disruptive. Once that space collapses, it doesn’t reopen because people were right about how bad things felt. I’m arguing against that collapse, not minimizing what’s at stake.
You can absolutely analyze cultural patterns. I’m just saying “you’re a violent culture” wasn’t the right choice of words. It’s also important to, while analyzing cultural patterns, to consider the role of privilege, and that words and actions are two different things, especially when the critic is looking in from the outside. I’m not talking about you specifically, but I’ve seen a lot of European/Canadian schadenfreude in left-wing online spaces (like Lemmy) over the situation happening an America. While they aren’t wrong that America is brash and needed to be taken down a peg, and there is a place for analyzing the political trajectory, sometimes these people forget the millions of people who aren’t gun-blazing, beer drinking, flag-waving patriots who are in danger, and that if they had the bad luck of being born somewhere else, they themselves might be in the exact same situation. The idea that “America tore itself apart” makes less sense the more you think about it, but seems incredibly plausible to an observer. I think the issue at hand is that, yes, it’s good to analyze cultural patterns, but America was never a monoculture.
In both situations, I ask: How does it help in these left-wing spaces to make blanket statements about Americans, when most of the posters in these spaces are the exception to Americanism and not the rule? Who is the “you” in “you’re a violent culture”?
I agree with this. But the message is everything. OP was just trying to make plans for a worst-case scenario and probably not jumping immediately to violence. While it indeed is important to recognize the spectrum of resistance, it also isn’t wrong to prep for the worst in addition to that. Currently, the people of Minneapolis, Minnesota, are resisting non-violently, and the Administration is still assaulting and murdering people and Trump is still threatening the Insurrection Act and martial law. For you, it’s a golden lining, but for us living it, we’re questioning whether that will work this time and bracing for impact. Is continuing nonviolent resistance the thing that save America? Maybe. Maybe the regime still won’t give us that chance. Maybe they will just make up lies to cancel elections and enact martial law. And if all options are extinguished and violence breaks out from that, it won’t be our fault for not being nonviolent enough.
Again, there’s nothing wrong about your underlying point – nonviolent resistance is important – but how it was worded.