• /home/pineapplelover@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      1·
      6 minutes ago

      In 23andme it says the results are for entertainment purposes and not to he used for any actual facts and especially healthcare. So I think they cover their bases to avoid a lawsuit like this

  • RalfWausE@feddit.org
    492·
    8 hours ago

    What does it say about me if I don’t get the drama around the whole incest thing? As long as all involved parties are consenting… who gives a shit?

    On the other hand it would really upset me and let me question my parenting if I found out that my son voluntarily sends genetics material to some questionable company…

    • FinjaminPoach@lemmy.world
      28·
      5 hours ago

      You’re kind of right - I think society gets worked up about it in the wrong way, relying on shame to prevent incest, rather than logic.

      spoiler

      The One reason it’s not that common is that siblings smell gross and feel gross to have sex with. Most siblings, if they actually tried to initiate sex, would back down very quickly because of those biological inhibitors.

      One reason that incest is wrong is because it usually manifests as abuse. One participant will be older or stronger than the other. As another commenter said, you can never rule that out, and anyone who finds out bout an incestuous relationship will assume it’s abusive

      Then the big no-no is inbreeding. You might not produce a child from one instance of intercourse, but it’s unethical because you’d be inflicting a fucked set of genetics onto that hypothetical child.

      But as weird as it is to say, nowadays you could theoretically practice safe incestuous sexual activity. But then there’s the remaining problem that “you’ll get attached,” and I do think the threat of permanently changing your relationship with one another, making things awkward, is very real.

      Another remaining problem is that I still see it as A) a response to loneliness, where two relatives who haven’t managed to encounter many mates will resort to each other, and B) a sort of sex addiction, arising if two similar aged relatives used it as a form of sexual experimentation.

      • qyron@sopuli.xyz
        15·
        4 hours ago

        About that smell comment.

        There are several registered cases of genetically related people that, unknowing they are related, develop attraction and engage in sexual activity. Some cases even mention the couple being more attracted to each other due to scent.

        There’s a small article in Wikipedia here.

        Now, for an anecdote: I knew a couple that was genetically related and they only discovered they were siblings because they tried to reconstruct their family tree through official records and things came out off.

        They already had two perfectly healthy children when I met them. They kept their blood connection as private as possible but they intended to tell their offspring the whole story when they could understand all of it and its implications.

        Now about the incest taboo: I find no issue in consenting adults engaging in sexual activity. Normalizing it, I find deeply troublesome. It would completely inbalance relatioships between family members and wreak havoc in the gene pool.

        • FinjaminPoach@lemmy.world
          10·
          4 hours ago

          Appreciate the anecdote and wikipedia link, I’ll check it out now

          I find no issue in consenting adults engaging in sexual activity. Normalizing it, I find deeply troublesome

          That’s a good way of putting it.

      • funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works
        3·
        4 hours ago

        if we’re being dispassionate - inbreeding increases the risks of genetic issues but by no means guarantees it. Not that I’d recommend it.

    • it_depends_man@lemmy.world
      482·
      8 hours ago

      There are three reasons against incest:

      • culture
      • genetics
      • it is impossible to rule out power dynamics and grooming. If they were freely consenting adults it wouldn’t be bad from this point alone, but you can never be sure that they are actually freely consenting.
      • ZeldaFreak@lemmy.world
        8·
        5 hours ago

        Genetics and health issues aren’t a big topic now, because of disabilities caused by genes. If your jurisdiction allows for example people with down syndrome to reproduce, you can’t argue about genetic defects by incest, as they are less likely/server. Here politicians did switch their argumentation towards protecting the family, which makes sense but only when they grew up as family. The problem is when siblings didn’t know each other, when they grew up, later fell in love and only then find out they are blood relatives, they legally can’t reproduce. You can’t argue with protecting the family, because they never where family. They don’t see them as brother and sister.

        In Germany there is a group who is fighting to legalize it. About consenting, there is a different law in Germany, which protects that. In Germany for the age of consent, we have 3 categories (14, 16 and 18). The one that matters in this context is everything under 18. If one partner is under 18, you can’t fuck them, if you have a specific relation like teacher, family member, guardian. Also this only applies to consent. Rape is still rape.

        But to be fair, a lot changed recently and being against incest “just recently” (still over 10 years) weakened their arguments. They don’t reevaluate everything that gets affected by court decisions or law changes, if now something else got weakened in their arguments. Consenting incest not between guardians, aren’t that many. It needs a group to collect facts and arguments and then need to present them but that doesn’t even guarantee politicians to act

      • unemployedclaquer@sopuli.xyzEnglish
        7·
        6 hours ago

        you can never be sure that they are actually freely consenting.

        They’re adults. That’s all you need to know.

        Also, not condoning grooming or whatever systematic abuse. Not saying it isn’t horrific, or that victims shouldn’t speak - sometimes people are just that fucking weird

        • Signtist@bookwyr.meEnglish
          4·
          5 hours ago

          Sure, people can just be that weird, and maybe most instances are, but any time you’re dealing with a situation where someone is having sex with a person who knew and had influence over them during childhood, it’s difficult to say they didn’t push a little too much to end up at this result.

          It’s like a young adult dating an old friend of their parents; most people’s minds immediately go to that one time 10 years ago where they both disappeared for an hour in the middle of a barbecue and got kinda defensive about it afterward…

          • Red_October@piefed.worldEnglish
            3·
            2 hours ago

            You’re really implying a considerable age difference here though, and that’s not really implied in either the original fake story or the hypothetical posed here. It’s not like dating an old friend of their parents, it’s more like dating their childhood best friend.

            • Signtist@bookwyr.meEnglish
              1·
              2 hours ago

              I mean, if the siblings are similar in age then yeah, I could see it being like a childhood best friend, but even a difference of, say, 4 years would be great enough that grooming could very well be in play.

          • unemployedclaquer@sopuli.xyzEnglish
            8·
            5 hours ago

            I must reiterate, I am not advocating for incest. When someone says “you can never be really sure that they are freely consenting”, my reaction is astonishment. Who is that person to judge what any of that means?

            • Signtist@bookwyr.meEnglish
              5·
              4 hours ago

              Who are we to worry about the wellbeing of our loved ones? We’re well-meaning adults in a situation where we can’t be certain they weren’t raped. We might be wrong and sticking our nose where it doesn’t belong, or we might be right and end up being the one person dedicated enough to save another person from a case of grooming. Those cases specifically rely on a person to dig too deep - they wouldn’t be uncovered otherwise.

              It’s a difficult place to be in, which is why we shun those relationships from the get-go. Nobody wants to be in that situation, and there are enough people in the world to have sex with that we can afford to say “not anyone who specifically had a hand in influencing what your developing brain considered ‘normal.’”

              • unemployedclaquer@sopuli.xyzEnglish
                4·
                4 hours ago

                It’s a sensitive topic, and I’m not the most sensitive person, but I’m not out to be a troll. Rights to personal autonomy, and consent, and privacy are at the crux of it. But also people hurt other people and it’s good to look out for that and to help each other to prevent that. Just don’t be a dick, I guess. Don’t dictate feelings to a rational adult.

                • Signtist@bookwyr.meEnglish
                  3·
                  4 hours ago

                  We’re definitely in agreement with that. Abuse is a tough subject to broach, and requires a lot of tact to do it right, but if someone is well-meaning, I don’t think the conversation itself should be shunned.

                  One time my sister’s husband got frustrated while trying to load a bunch of stuff into his car, and ended up throwing something in his frustration. It wasn’t at anyone or anything, but it was such a stark difference from how he normally acts that I felt the need to subtly take my sister aside and ask if he ever hit her. It was a bit awkward, but she knew that my heart was in the right place, so she assured me he wasn’t abusive, and even told him what I had asked to show him how his action looked to a third party, which caused him to take me aside to apologize and thank me for looking out for my sister.

                  All that to say, it’s good to care for your loved ones, and having mutual respect can let you poke your nose a bit deeper than usual so long as its for the right reasons. As a society we simply try to keep those situations from being necessary in the first place, which is why we tend to be uncomfortable with relationships that are at a higher risk of being abusive.

        • Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de
          31·
          5 hours ago

          I want you to ask yourself something.

          “What is my point? Why am I arguing in favor of this?”

          I don’t know your answer to the question and I assume your current opinion is not one that you thought a lot about. It is just a spontaneous thought.

          I think that because I am wondering when I read your comment, why are you defending the right to have incest for some “fucking weird” people when you were just made aware of the danger of grooming, especially in that context?

          • unemployedclaquer@sopuli.xyzEnglish
            51·
            5 hours ago

            I was initially responding to

            You can never be really sure that they are freely consenting

            I am in no way arguing for incest. I am not arguing for mistreatment of anyone. Or that it’s appropriate to misconstrue the facts to hide “family secrets”. I am well aware of the dangers of grooming. If you want to go into people’s homes to see if adults are behaving themselves sexually, then you also are deranged.

            • Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de
              31·
              4 hours ago

              I don’t think anyone argued for “going into people’s houses to check”.

              But the question about “freely consenting” is grooming and power dynamics. So if you are not in favor of these things, what was said that you have an issue with?

              Just as a reminder, the topic was what the problem with incest is.

              • unemployedclaquer@sopuli.xyzEnglish
                4·
                4 hours ago

                I think that because I am wondering when I read your comment, why are you defending the right to have incest for some “fucking weird” people when you were just made aware of the danger of grooming, especially in that context?

                You are pushing me into a corner with your own definitions of “power dynamics” and consent. I can’t speak for anyone else on consent, which is what originally provoked me, that someone else would want to reach in and define consent or question others’ adult definitions. Look into some kink play, again, people are pretty fucking weird.

                • Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de
                  1·
                  2 hours ago

                  I didn’t intend to push you in a corner and I can assure you that “kink play” is very aware of power dynamics and consent.

          • Soulg@ani.socialEnglish
            4·
            3 hours ago

            I don’t really agree with him but I do not think they’re arguing in favor of it, just going “meh adults who cares go ahead”. In favor who be like, no it’s good actually

            • Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de
              11·
              4 hours ago

              I think they are trying to make a nuanced take but the nuance is not really there in that specific case, causing them to argue accidentally for something that they don’t agree with. But I could be mistaken and miss something huge and there is an important nuance.

    • save_the_humans@leminal.spaceEnglish
      131·
      8 hours ago

      I think the issue is offspring has an increased likelihood of genetic defects. So its kind of probably always been taboo. Like since humanity’s inception.

      • green_copper@kbin.earth
        1·
        2 hours ago

        So its kind of probably always been taboo. Like since humanity’s inception.

        Medieval royalty enters the chat.

  • robocall@lemmy.world
    17·
    9 hours ago

    It could be very distressing to receive someone else’s 23andMe results, and confront one’s mother about not being related. It also feels like an invasion of someone else’s privacy to receive their data, and have your own data given to someone else.

    I assume a genealogy company like this would write something in the ToS absolving them of any liability if they make mistakes, but would consider reading the fine print, and inquiring about a refund or new test kit. I can’t see how they would be responsible for the incest - that’s on the siblings.