Then Kit is genuinely an idiot. How could you be surprised by the reaction to season 8??
He wants in on Rowling’s crap, so I’m going to have to say he’s a fucking dipshit.
He obviously didn’t watch it.
Harington, who starred in the HBO drama as Jon Snow, told the Times that he was in rehab when the final “Game of Thrones” season premiered. When he got out, he was shocked by the overwhelming negativity
First of all thanks to the author, because I was like “who?” I thought he was a writer for a moment.
And second, it sounds like there were a lot of reasons the last season didn’t go well.
They don’t call him John Snow for nothing👃
Because he white?
And because, despite being a common surname, all Snows are unique!
What about twin snows, like Jon and Bon?
Like Jon Bon Snowvi?
They have rotational symmetry, but not reflective symmetry.
“You know nothing”
“How dare you have the opinion that lousy writing is lousy!”
What an absurd thing to be genuinely angry about. And considering his other work he’s probably going to want to get used to people not enjoying his efforts.
I can’t recall anything good any of the leading stars have been in after GoT.
Sophie Turner has had a decent run of mid-tier high budget movies (the jennifer lawrence xmen movies) and I think is the new live action Lara Croft?
Robb Stark was in that show about the bodyguard who banged the president while calling her “mum” the entire time? I hear that was good? And he has pivoted that into even more pseudo-spy dramas?
Kit was one of the less offensive things about Marvel’s Eternals. Allegedly. Nobody watched it.
But I think it is also important to remember how a lot of these major franchises go. Most of the cast are hired REAL young because they are basically signing a contract to be in something for a decade or more. The known greats are wary of that and are going to want a lot more money and may just bail. See Elizabeth Olsen in the MCU where she clearly decided she was done with that shit. And that is why it tends to be less “Wow, so and so was a great actor” and more “So… both the leads of Twilight kind of just became known for really quirky low budget films they took because they are already set for life monetarily?”
Sometimes you get lucky? Most of the time you don’t. And you rely on your supporting cast to carry the production. And most of the GoT supporting cast were already known amazing talent with established careers who just continued doing their own thang after the fact.
Rose Leslie (Ygritte, Snow’s wildling live interest) has anthe lead in the Time Traveler’s Wife (series remake). It’s a little cheesy, but I did enjoy it very much and the ratings are quite OK
“So… both the leads of Twilight kind of just became known for really quirky low budget films they took because they are already set for life monetarily?”
I’ve really enjoyed following the careers of those two. Stewart in particular is very underrated. She has a very laid back, “natural” style which didn’t gel well.with big budget cringe like Twilight but comes off as very realistic and convincing in smaller indie dramas.
I think Stewart just full on embraced weird shit being her thing, and I have really enjoyed just about everything she’s done. And I had zero interest in Twilight.
Gwendoline Christie making tunes with Sleaford Mods and Big Special is the best thing I’ve seen:
Eternals was also Robb Stark, not Kit. It was not a good film.
It was both, kit was in it for like 5 total minutes and was in the scene mid or post credits with blade.
Richard Madden was a main character tho and had way more screen time.
I have no memory of this. I must have blocked it out.
Peter Dinklage was good in Roofman
The Dinkman was fairly successful before GoT, though.
And the new Toxic Avenger
New dexter too
He pissed even more on GoT fans.
True and it’s a shame because Emilia Clarke seems to put her all into everything she acts in, but she’s had some REALLY cheesy movies since GoT… Last Christmas, Me Before You, and Marvel’s Secret Invasion series
She seems to be a very nice person, but to me, she had the weakest performances of almost anyone on the show. Could be a me problem, but the scenes with her always just broke my suspension of disbelief. The only thing worse was seeing Ed Sheeran…
no, I’m with you on that. I just didn’t really buy her character a lot of the time.
Logan was good, Masie was okay in it. Uhh…yeah.
No major GOT cast member was in Logan.
she was not in that.
I don’t know how to respond to that. I feel like I’m being Mandelad pretty hard right now.
Dafne Keen was the girl in Logan.
Maybe you’re thinking of The New Mutants?
Masie was in New Mutants, which was very mediocre.
She was great in Dr Who
I don’t see how that could work. I don’t even think that starbucks still make those cups.
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He didn’t say he was surprised, though.
Maybe he was mad about the “competent” part? Because, the writers showed they were competent, so they apparently just DGAF in the last season.
Competent when they were making a screenplay from amazing novels. Not so much when they had to go it alone.
Was it because AT&T purchased it at the time and tried to turn it into Netflix?
I’ll never get tired of the people who whinge about that.
Yes, the quality of the show took a major nosedive after they ran out of written material. In large part because they had to constantly jump from Event to Event and had a hard time building up the nuance that connected those.
You know what? They should have put everyone in cryofreeze and waited until Martin finished the books. He’ll have the next one any day now… He just needs to figure out the logistics of getting characters from point A to point B while still having time to add the nuance and connective tissue that would make that make sense.
Wait a moment…
People also don’t realize how incredibly valuable it is to effectively have a global focus group to figure out what worked and what didn’t in a story by looking at the reaction to book scenes before filming.
But nah. The issue is clearly all HBO and Benioff and Weiss.
But nah. The issue is clearly all HBO and Benioff and Weiss.
I don’t understand what your argument here is… it’s not the writer’s fault that they can’t write without whole books of source material? It’s not the writer’s fault that the events and dialog and characters went to shit once they had to do more of the writing?
You’re reaching harder than Shireen looking for anyone who cares if she lives or dies.
The point is that they had the outline of what Martin wanted the story to be. At the time of completion, it had been 8 years since Martin had released a book and 4 years since they had been dependent on filling in the gaps of the outline themselves (some of Season 6 overlapped with Dance but it was mostly the Arya stuff that was clearly meandering in both versions).
The reality is that there was either a LOT more book/show than 2 doorstoppers and 4 seasons… or a lot less (that is where I tend to fall).
But yeah. The problem is the showrunners should have just done what has taken Martin at least 15 years to do at this point… over the course of a few months? And then probably tried to get the blessing of the guy who had already, allegedly, crashed out over not liking adaptation changes (and would, a decade or so later, very publicly crash out over the exact same stuff).
The Mereneese Knot is a hard problem to solve. Moreso in a way that makes both book and show fans satisfied. And there is a lot of blame to go around.
Just to elaborate to the void a bit.
From the first page to basically Nedd’s death and MAYBE Tyrion’s release, ASOIAF is essentially a courtly intrigue book. It then becomes a war book until… more or less where the books end. The Lannisters have already won in every way that matters and the Tyrells, who tried to bring courtly intrigue back, mostly have been superseded by The Church (and all signs are that Cersei will also demonstrate that wildfire can melt stone arches in the books too…). The Battle of the Bastards is the last REAL fight until Dany (who won her war a book or so prior?) shows up.
And… that drastically changes the pacing and structure of a series. Courtly intrigue and resulting war can more or less be told in real time. But they are past that. They are waiting for the next war to kick off. That means kingdom management with minimal intrigue (much easier to be arch when folk aren’t still scrubbing the blood off their floors).
And management by necessity involves time skips. Yes, it is fun to realize that a good chunk of Romance of the Three Kingdoms is about how Guan Yu et al sucks at actual governorship. But unless you are the kind of sicko who loves to read about irrigation projects… yeah. Which is why basically anyone who knows their Chinese History from Dynasty Warriors can give almost blow by blow details of the Yellow Turbans up to maybe Guandu. Then they get REAL quiet when you ask them why there are (generally) FOUR kingdoms to choose from or where Zhao Yun and Zhuge Liang came from or even who actually won. Because it went from “and then, in the spring, we fought at…” and became “so like five years later…” by the simple necessity of… humanity.
But Martin, and by association HBO, don’t want that time skip. He wants to keep giving the play by play so that we can hear all about that irrigation project.
“they made it bad on purpose” is a new one to me.
It really IS Martin’s fault. NuXCOM is right, but to act like HBO, Benioff and Weiss actually GAF is laughable. B&W were off signing new deals while the whole thing crashed. Not saying it would be EASY to find a shadow writer capable of bridging the gap but it sure doesn’t look like they tried.
… If you are adapting a turd that is going to piss off everyone, wouldn’t you maybe secure some future work ahead of time?
Like… anyone who thinks “because he had the best story” and the chubby author insert with the hot wife winning isn’t pure Martin… I got a bridge to sell you and I’ll give you a discount if you pay in crypto.
As for HBO fixing it themselves? Look at how Martin lost his god damned mind over some minor adaptations for the prequel series. That is far from the first time he has thrown a hissy over anyone touching His Work. Even if they had found someone who could truly untangle the mereneese knot in a perfect manner, it would have just led to an angry old white guy losing his shit and disparaging everyone involved.
That analysis doesn’t seem to explain the parts of the show that sucked not for lack of good source material, but because they just ignored it. Dorne, for example.
Book Dorne was a giant shaggy dog story that results in a kid getting sliced up (not great for reviews and very costly for makeup for her remaining appearances) and, last we know of, Jaime on his way to maybe tell her she is an incest baby but it’s cool because all these people on reddit/lemmy see no issue with that. So she is all but guaranteed to die horribly upon returing to Westeros but in the arms of Jaime.
Show Dorne led to Myrcella getting dead and had the god awful “everyone wants bad pussy” line or whatever it was. Which was obnoxious but very much lines up with the sexposition of the good years that people seemed to love.
I think a better argument would be Lady Stoneheart. As a character, she mostly treads the same ground that Thoros of Myr and later Jon would (all of which almost assuredly ends with “but who cares about magic because the real evil is humanity”). But all signs are that it drastically changes both Jaime and Brienne’s arc. That said, I assume show Jaime ends up being much more sympathetic (and, thus, tragic) and Show Brienne likely merged with another character to become the new head of the kingsguard as a way to give her story a better ending than “brainwashed by birgands and dead in a ditch”.
this show failed to convince me that i need to give a flying fuck what happens next at the end of S2, and it’s really weird to me that people are still talking about it a generation later
Man, y’all really are dumb enough to feed the troll, huh?
I wonder if someone’s formalized an axiom that in any internet forum post about something popular, someone will feel the need to not add to the conversation but to declare that they personally didn’t like it and that it’s bizzare others did.
It’s a strange impulse but you see it over and over again.
I’m guilty of that but i always do it when i actually hated something and I’m politely downplaying how shite I thought it was.
I think this is essentially a statistics thing; any online collection of people will tend to have a normal distribution spread from hate to love for the subject matter.
The person who hates it the most will fill an environmental niche when they see nobody has said it yet. But we have to work with the environment:
- a generally-neutral comments section leaves only room to politely dismiss/critique one or two select aspects of a show.
- a generally positive one allows people at the RHS (“LOVE”) of the normal distribution free reign to gas it up, but only affords to the biggest hater in the room, enough space to say “well it was mid. It was alright i guess. It was overrated.”
- likewise a generally-negative comment section will see people who only disliked it start to convince themselves that they HATED it, while the few who LOVED it have to pretend it’s “just alright” for fear of persecution
So now you see, U7826391786239 is a trailblazer; his negative-in-intent-but-ultimately-rather-ambivalent comment demonstrates typical no-man’s land behaviour. With this comment he has spread his seed over the virgin soil of this online ecosystem and allowed the great debate to begin again on whether GoT is a good show or not
“popular”
man, you should see how i talk about trump supporters
You can debate the merits of the show but to give one of the most watched shows in history a “popular” just makes you look like a goof.
https://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/popular.html
kanye is one of the most listened to musics. fuck him too
What logical argument did I make that invoked the show’s popularity?
I pointed out the fact that the show is/was popular.
Why would you compare GoT to Kanye?
i’m not comparing those two things. i’m pointing out that the “it’s popular = it must be good” argument is obviously ridiculous when you apply it to kanye. or any other terrible thing that’s “popular”
i’m pointing out that the “it’s popular = it must be good” argument is obviously ridiculous
No one made that argument, though. The person you replied to literally said you can debate the merits of the show.
Well to be clear, Kanye’s recent music material output aside and awful public behaviour - his musical content is absolutely highly acclaimed historically by listeners and critics.
Thats a bad comparison. Kayne’s music is very well respected.
the entire point of this whole thread is “popular” does NOT automatically equal “good”
if your reasoning is that the music (or the show, or the painting, or whatever tf you want) is respected because “it’s respected,” then you’re doing literally nothing to support your position
I dont think I need to show evidence to support my statement, its common knowledge and I wouldnt expect anyone to try and dispute that Kayne’s music isnt considered good or respected.
the entire point of this whole thread is “popular” does NOT automatically equal “good”
Who on Earth has made that arhument?
The part that’s worth talking about, to me, is how creators and their audience can occasionally be on such different pages. What happens to the creative process to make that happen? Is it indicative of a deeper ill with the industry?
HBO is known for taking big swings and they used to depend on the fact that it didn’t matter how many of their shows sucked because eventually they’d make a GoT or The Wire, so it’s not weird to see one of their shows suck or be amazing… but it’s certainly memorable when they make one that does both.
HBO could kind of do that because they were THE premium channel and how a significant chunk of the US market actually watched movies.
Even by GOT? E’RYBODY was showing titties. Hell, I want to say AMC even was getting to push the envelope a bit? And Starz were outright hanging dong more often than not at that point (I will die on the hill that Spartacus was better written, better acted, and respected the audience more). And it was similarly around the time people were on to their bullshit (see SNL’s “It’s not Porn, it’s HBO” skit).
And with Netflix and Amazon both spinning up their own studios? It isn’t a surprise HBO reached the point that its branding was taken off the streaming service.
They’ve lost their niche in recent years, it’s true. Another casualty of “progress” just like episodic TV. Nowadays every showrunner thinks they can tell us “don’t worry, it gets good in an hour or two of screen time”, and as long as it’s captured the spotlight by the season finale, they’ve still got a job. Time wasters!
but it’s certainly memorable when they make one that does both.
I don’t know. Hollywood, in it’s entirety, sucks and amazes to the max. Like… that’s literally their thing.
i think the “creators,” i.e. owners, producers, shareholders don’t really care either. deliver the product, that’s it. obviously quality doesn’t matter, because if it did, then the quality wouldn’t be absolute dogshit. but here we are, talking about it, which is really the end goal, isn’t it? keep people talking about it. and i didn’t even watch the damn thing. mission accomplished!
If you’re not having fun talking about it, nobody’s making you… But, you can make your own decisions.
There’s always that tension between creatives (artists) and the profit motive. It’s true for show runners, just as it is for small Etsy artists. Part of the artistry is pretending one wants to do what must be done, in order to recover a sense of genuine expression without losing the means to continue. Maybe that’s the difference between amateurs and professionals. A good showrunner must humble themselves in both directions at once - to the suits, and to their audience - and even then they will fail, unless they can convince us that’s what they wanted to do all along.
When mistakes are made and you lose your audience, it is all too easy to blame them for not liking it. A good comedian doesn’t argue with a crowd that isn’t laughing, obviously the only opinion that matters is theirs. You dig yourself out of that hole by admitting it and moving on. That’s what’s unprofessional (in the sense stated earlier) of the GoT team - not to take any criticism onboard. It will only limit their future creative to have that mindset. That’s the part that matters, who cares if it was profitable to the suits?
What’s not to enjoy? Incest + creative torture and murder. That’s an 8 season idea right there.
you can go to pornhub for the first two things, and just look at news if you enjoy murder.
why bother with all the soap opera shit
What TV do you like, exactly?
lately, nothing. i’ve been marathoning what i grew up with, star trek" TOS, TNG, DS9, voyager-- i tried to get into the “newer” ones, but they’re meh to me. i was initially interested in orphan black and squid game, but they got tedious and i lost interest
generally speaking i’ll avoid investing a single microsecond in a show until a) it’s 100% completed; and b) people don’t fucking hate the ending–which, apparently isn’t the case with GoT
I mean GOT still at least had 6 highly received seasons. I don’t think the ending degrades GOT as a series.
I also don’t think there’s anything especially wrong with gravitating towards media content that explores dark or violent themes in writing (seemingly a partial objection of yours to GOT?)
I don’t think the ending degrades GOT as a series.
the ending is the most important part. what’s the point of any of it if it’s not leading up to something? i have no problem with darkness or violence, but to claim those things as a unique or groundbreaking thing in defense of the show is what’s goofy to me. i mean it has boobies too. yea, and…?
It depends on how much quality there is prior to it to me. Endings do weaken the show overall to varying degrees if they are badly done or rushed, but there’s a lot of great content along-the-way.
