I mean, a lot of PUA advice is basic bitch “wash your ass”, “dress nice”, “engage in interesting conversation”, “don’t get hung up on a single person forever” tips that get glazed in new age pop psychology.

And if you go to the OG Bible of the PUAs (and get all the way to the end of the book) Neil Strauss makes all the same critiques of PUAs in the book that’s supposed to laud them.

The mistake people make is in reading the material like a How To Plumber’s Guide to fixing your dick drain instead of a life experience that informs a moment in history. You can learn from the mistakes of other people without becoming an asshole. Or you can learn to be an asshole by blindly replicating other people’s mistakes.

I think hisnheart is in the right place I mean he did work on himself. The issue is no one else is really talking to these guys.

Thanks for translating, I could only read “pole up ass.”

Failing romantically is painful and difficult. Especially when you’re younger and your emotions are still new and raw, it’s easy to fixated on a single person, to obsess and stew and cultivate insecurity and paranoia.

One of the big secrets to dating is not to do it alone. Throw parties, join clubs, mix with people your age. The apps are a trap. You’ll have far more luck dragging a friend or two with you to the gym and meeting people who work out at the same time. Or doing Rec League volleyball or basketball or running club or whatever. Or volunteering or going to church or literally leaving the house for any reason and hanging out with other people.

Why do you think so many 20-somethings spend every night out at The Club? It’s not for the smell.

But all of this is hard, and needs to be acknowledged as such. Groups of friends make it easier. That’s a big first step.

Well, if he’s doing pick up artist shit (pua), he’s definitely an incel.

Women are just people. Just talk to them like people.

All of these problems start with these stupid people treating each gender like they’re some entirely different species born on a different planet. People are just people.

The problem is, as a straight guy, my personal lived experience is that if an attractive women walked up to me in the Wendy’s and said “Hey, you’re hot, I’m horny. Wanna fuck in the bathroom right now?”, my response would be “Yes. Let me wash my hands first. Or not. Maybe you’re into fry grease.”

And yet, this has never happened to me. And every peice of cultural conditioning I have, from tv shows in my youth to jokes my friends tell to corporate HR policies tell me that this would be an inappropriate thing to do, were the sexes reversed.

So I consider - perhaps I am a sexual deviant. But this argument falls flat on its face, as again, pretty much every peice of cultural conditioning I have indicates that this is a fairly normal way to feel as a sexually mature male human. But then, maybe this is propaganda created by the patriarchy to reinforce gender stereotypes and, I dunno… oppress women somehow? But there is plenty of evidence that this is a fairly common position for male humans to have, as evidenced by women recieving unsolicited dick pics, the preponderance of porn on the internet directed at men, or the very existance of pickup artists at all. But still, this all exists within heteronormative bounds, so maybe it is still propaganda by the capitalists or something. But the biggest nail in the coffin here is Grindr. Take a look at pretty much any gay man’s Grindr. Open the app, see the first profile that comes up. What do you see? A pic of some guy’s asshole. Bio: “Wanna fuck my ass? I’m down rn. Send me a message.” This is a common, expected, and accepted experience on Grindr. Apparently, when given the option, two gay dudes will be fucking in the Wendy’s bathroom as a first date no problem. And I can therefore conclude that I am not significantly outside the norm for male sexuality. It is possible that there are less horny men out there, and they may even be the majority. But I have at the very least established that my sexuality is common enough such that it is non-negligible.

I can thus conclude that, to some extent, my sexuality and that of the modal woman differ, and I cannot rely on my own lived experience as a good proxy. I must therefore treat the mind of the modal woman as a black box, and with some combination of evidence, solve for X. Really, as a straight male, the fact that the modal woman has different desires than me should be patently obvious, since I find penises to be gross (except mine, which is great!), while I am explicitly looking for a person who thinks penises are hot.

This is neither a bad or manipulative thing to do, nor an uncommon thing. In fact, it is extremely common. For example, if I have a bag of sand and want to sell it, then I will need to ask myself - what can I do to make my bag of sand appeal to people who might want to buy it? As a seller, I want to do no work and get as much money as possible, but as a buyer, they also want to do no work, but they want to pay as little money as possible. Thus, in order to sell my sand, I must expand my consciousness outside of my own personal lived experience and consider the motivations and desires of minds which are foreign to me.

Via genetics or epigenetics or hormones or culture or the convergent influences of common lived experiences, modal male and female sexualities, desires, norms, and expectations are different. This is fine. But it does create a demand for information on what the other sex desires, and how best to go about serving the two’s mutual interest. Thus, I think there is a strong case to be made for the fact that denying these differences is actively harmful. By doing so, we cede the space to people like PUAs, who are willing to acknowledge these differences, and who will then monopolize the advice market, even if their advice is terrible

and you can carry a conversation

You realize this is a 4chan poster who says that they never actually tried to “seduce” a girl, right? No way this guy is even halfway decent at carrying a conversation with a stranger, especially if that stranger isn’t the same kind of nerd they are, and most of this kind of people stay at home anyway so you can’t meet them. Plus y’know, all the bullshit opinions that come for free when you become a 4chan poster.

“Don’t feel bad about being an incel. Everyone who isn’t a literal rapist is an incel. It’s okay” is one of the more enlightenment takes.

Bill Burr showing that everybody has a price…

Is it bad that part of me misses Ray William Johnson?

Gay: anon is on grindr, but didn’t reveal it

Yes.

But also, would the result have been different?

Which part of this has anything to do with pickup artists

I wouldn’t put too much weight on word choice here. For all we know they aren’t even a native English speaker and they’re definitely socially inept, the nuance of “seducing” might not be that obvious to them.

experienced kinksters in the process of being seduced would be on high alert looking for any and all red flags or attempts to push their boundaries. because though seduction is hot - if a stranger does it to impress you, you should be paying close attention to what they do next

I too spit at this line! Tuah tuah