cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/40697282
This is mostly just word-vomit, but I had a random idea while doing a tonne of Xmas shopping and figured you guys might appreciate possibly chewing on it.
What if there potentially was a Fediverse-style alternative / competitor to Amazon Prime, etc. but instead of being one giant marketplace (a la Flohmarkt, etc.), it was made up of independent websites that federate together?
Think something architecturally similar to Lemmy, Mastodon, Peertube, Pixelfed, Loops by Pixelfed, etc, but:
No “instances” in the traditional sense (like Lemmy servers, Mastodon, instances, etc.)
Instead, each shop is its own fully independent website
(e.g.
Gotyka,
Dolls Kill,
Dracula Clothing,
VampireFreaks,
Killstar,
Hot Topic,
Barnes and Noble,
Home Depot,
Everlane,
Kotn,
Pact,
American Giant,
Taylor Stitch,
Outerknown,
plus other shops for books, electronics, home goods, etc.)
The federated layer wouldn’t replace their storefronts. It would just:
Aggregate listings / catalogs
Allow discovery, search, wishlists, maybe reviews
Potentially handle things like recommendations without centralizing power
Function kind of like a decentralized “market index” rather than a single store
In other words: a protocol + shared infrastructure, not a mega-store.
Some half-baked thoughts:
Users might sign in via each individual shop (or perhaps via a shared fediverse identity like ActivityPub / OAuth / something new)
Each store keeps control of branding, stock, payments, policies
The “platform” just connects them into one large, searchable, decentralized marketplace
No single Amazon-style choke point that can enshittify everything
I love this idea in theory, but realistically:
I don’t have the skills, knowledge, or time to build anything like this
I also don’t know if this already exists in some form (OpenBazaar vibes? Solid? Something ActivityPub-adjacent?)
This is more of a conceptual “what if” than a proposal
But the idea stuck with me because:
I hate how centralized Amazon is
I like how the Fediverse decentralizes control
And holiday shopping really highlights how fragmented yet monopolized online commerce has become
So I’m mostly curious:
Is this technically feasible with existing Fediverse tech?
Has something like this already been attempted?
What would be the biggest blockers — payments, trust, logistics, identity, incentives?
Would independent shops even want this, or would it be more attractive to smaller creators?
Is there a protocol or project adjacent to this idea?
This idea honestly came from Xmas shopping fatigue and bouncing between a million tabs, wishing there was a non-Amazon way to do “one stop shopping” without recreating Amazon itself.
Curious to hear thoughts, critiques, or “this already exists and you reinvented the wheel” responses.
Also, feel more than welcome to steal the idea.
You mean just Amazon, and not Amazon Prime? The main advantage of Prime is shipping.
And in a way, you’re just describing Amazon, just slightly different. The Amazon storefront isn’t just Amazon, it’s also a bunch of smaller sellers using Amazon services, either to sell through Amazon or ship from their own facility, as well as sell from their own site. A random example would be 3D filament from Prusa. You can buy it from Amazon that ships locally (and cheaper), or you can buy it directly from their site that ships from Czech Republic.
The only thing that feels centralized to me, is their payment system. If I already have an account set up on amazon, I’ll more likely buy it through their website than one that’s not. That way I don’t have to put in my personal info into another site just to buy from them.
I feel like you missed the “independent shops” part of the description entirely. And the “[amazon market is] fragmented but monopolized” part. And the “competitor to amazon” part. And, like, the entire gist of the post. And im wondering if you’ve used amazon recently, or perhaps have been living under a rock for a while to say you feel the payment system is the only centralized part of amazon.
The company I work for actually already tried it like 20 years ago, got immediately scammed with an expensive credit card chargeback (we’d already passed the money on) and the boss pulled the plug on it.
I think most shops don’t want you to see competitors prices and be able to swap to them with a click. They were like walled gardens and only begrudgingly use Amazon because some people think the rest of the internet is scary and don’t trust it.
Amazon already shows us where that approach goes. It results in a melting pot of the cheapest possible crap.
I work for a pretty big company and we have our own versions of popular services. And things fail all the time. Last year, we couldnt accept money for a few hours and lost millions. Our POS went down and same.
One of the initiatives this year was for better reliability, and one solution was to use the big monopoly services. And damn it, it works and they never go down. (Or if they do, our services still work)
Hey, can we also have local services, too? For example, if someone needs a magician or mind-reader / fake psychic in the Midwest, I’m your guy.
mind-reader / fake psychic
/ mentalist(?)
Sure.
Although know that I am thinking about it, what if it was like a decentralized, federated version of those ads that were in the newspaper, but with websites instead?
Bookshop.org is a little bit this for books
Their main advantage is their shipping centers, not the website itself imo. Can’t hurt to try though!
This seems like a good idea. I don’t know how anyone else realistically competes with Amazon on their own.
And anyone who competes with Amazon on their own is likely to be (or become) just as bad, if not worse, than Amazon, so that’s a false hope anyway. A big part of the myth that capitalism sold us is that “competition” will keep monopolies from forming or at least keep them honest if they do, but in reality, that just results in oligopoly which is not a solution at all.
I think it’s a solid idea. I mean there’s probably some stuff to figure out so people don’t get outcompeted on their own website or scams and the like… But kinda reminds me of how competing supermarkets will be close to each other so people can visit both and spend more. Or how shopping malls or shopping districts work with everything in close proximity / under one roof.
The biggest problem with Amazon is already this kind of operation they call “drop shipping.” I don’t think having it all done in a non-centralized system, in a non-insured way would be better. At least you still have the benefit of contacting a single point for customer service if something goes wrong. What guarantees would a federated knock off have to keep customers safe from scammers?
I feel like a federated online store model would be better about that cause you could defederate from stores that don’t moderate out dropshipping
You’re describing AliExpress.
Floh Market fleamarket in German is loosely the start of this.
Yeah, I mentioned Flohmarkt in the post
Ahh my mistake. Carry on. 🙂
You know how Amazon has a bunch of drop shipment crap that’s exactly the same but with a different brand? Yeah, that’s what this will turn into.
You could have a company that curates and manages which stores get “federated” in but they’ll have costs and that means overhead and someone has to pay for that.
The participants will have to standardize on an API for accurate inventory, shipping calculations and guarantees, tax information, product details, reviews, etc.
You’re basically recreating what Amazon already does. Walmart, Target and others do this, too. But those stores run the storefront and simply pass on orders. Unless you can make it more cost efficient than selling through the big storefronts or add value in some way, it’s dead in the water.
Problem is that a shop probably doesn’t want to show you listings from their competitors, and price aggregators don’t want to share their listings with other price aggregators because they would lose their kickback if you buy from another referrer.
What you describe already exists in a non-federated way as these modern “marketplace” platforms like Amazon, where many third-party sellers can all list the same product at different prices and the platform aggregates all of the listings into one product page. Amazon is not the only site that does this.
If you had a federated protocol to implement this kind of marketplace, then you’d be adding an extra middleman to the transaction, because you’d need to compensate both the server that hosts the vendor’s listing and the server that showed that listing to the buyer. This might make prices higher for consumers or margins thinner for sellers.
I don’t think it’s impossible in theory but it would need some good business experience to pull off successfully. You’d basically be competing with all of the incumbent giants (Amazon) right off the bat.
Perhaps something like a decentralized Shopify?
Or Shopify’s Shop app?
I have no idea how Shopify works. I hear they support fascism.
I’m not talking about copying Shopify’s Political Views, etc.
I’m talking about potentially copying how the platform is set up.
I know, I just don’t particularly want to dedicate part of my brain to understanding what they do. I’m sure there are non-fascist examples to take inspiration from.
There aren’t. Capitalism and Fascism share a branch.
Unless your product is better priced than the other sellers, why would you want to be there?
Competing with the likes of Amazon can’t just be done in software alone. Each merchant would need to handle actually shipping out products themselves, that’s the real barrier to entry. And what of consumer protection, how do you keep this platform from being overrun by scammers and bots?
