Can anyone help with pointers for automatable garage heaters? So far my searches aren’t finding anything. My requirements are:
- remotely preheat when I want to work out
- alert if it’s left on, or automatically turn off
I’m in the US, looking for 240v maybe 5,000w electric heater. The basic item is cheap and readily available at home centers or online. I even see variations with Bluetooth remote and/or controlled by app.
I’m looking for something locally automatable. Matter/Thread would be ideal but I’m fine with Zigbee or z-wave. But I’m not finding anything like that, and getting stuck on some vendors portal is not ok. Any leads?
Or something that can use an external thermostat - I actually have an extra Ecobee - that can be locally automatable. Any leads? Any search tips that might find such a thing?
I briefly thought of automating an outlet, however even if smart outlets are available for those loads, that wouldn’t work because all these heaters have a safety feature to run the fan until the unit is cool
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You’re looking in the wrong direction.
Let’s say you get an electric heater of that size. How would you control it on a thermostat? I promise you in a warehouse where that would be used it wouldn’t just be a circuit breaker you turn on and off.
The answer is a relay, AKA a contactor. A small amount of power, either 24 volt or 120 volt at low amperage energizes the coil, which then pulls the contactor and engages a much larger power flow. With such a thing you could use any any thermostat such as a Z-Wave Honeywell T6 Pro or a Smart switch to control the big load.
That said, such an electric heater will use an awful lot of power. You should really consider a mini split.
Electric heaters are about 100% efficient. 5000 w of power input equals 5000 w of heat output. Heat pumps depending on the conditions can be 250% to 400% efficient. That’s because they aren’t turning electricity into heat, they are using electricity to move already existing heat in from the outside. Thus 5000 w of power input could mean 15,000 w of heat output.A lot of mini splits work with an external thermostat, but you don’t want to use them that way. Mini splits are modulated output, which means the compressor can run at almost any speed from 1% to 100%. They get maximum efficiency when working at about half output. So you want to be able to enable that savings. That means using the mini splits internal thermostat rather than an external thermostat that just switches it on and off.
A great many of them use infrared, so you could just rig up an IR emitter that would send it commands. Then don’t use the remote control that comes with it and it will still have whatever state you just broadcast it via infrared.
Alternatively there are some that have online connections and can be controlled via the cloud. For certain ones there is a replacement connection board you can get that replaces the Wi-Fi cloud connector with an ESP device enabling local control via home assistant. Do some research on this before you purchase.Maybe the Kelvin Smart Space Heater. It’s a radiant heat panel. Works with Alexa and Google Home but if you pair it with their thermostat it works with Matter and Home Assistant out of the box.
https://shopboldr.com/products/kelvin?variant=39739124580430
https://www.cnet.com/home/smart-home/this-shiny-black-panel-is-one-of-the-best-home-heaters-ive-tested/Also don’t compare the wattage of these panels with a normal space heater. These panels are more efficient since they radiate infrared right onto the surfaces of your room and on to your body, instead of heating the air and letting the warm air warm the room and yourself.
That looks really cool for other uses but it doesn’t really fit the goal of quickly heating a garage for a workout. Too expensive, not enough power, looks too nice, radiant is probably not the right technology.
On the other hand my bathroom could really use exactly that
They might be perfect for a workout space. Just place a panel right above where you work out and when you turn the panel on you feel the heat immediately, since the infrared waves gets blasted straight on to you. And you don’t have to heat the entire garage. Or hang one on a wall with a swivel hinge and you can change the direction of the radiation so when you move to the other side of the room you can aim it to that side.
Radiant heat is great for intermittent heating. Instead of heating a space, you heat the objects (and people) in the space, and that heat can be felt seconds after starting the heater. It doesn’t matter if the air temp is actually 2C if the radiant heat makes it feel like 22C.
A cheap solution suggestion, not sure if it fits your requirements:
- a dumb heater with manual switches
- a remote controlled power plug for the heater (e.g. zigbee)
- a remot thermal sensor (e.g. zigbee)
- a simple HA automation that checks temperature and turns the plug on for X mins
- a fire alarm to prevent that from burning down your building
I do like the safety feature that all of these want to run the fan to cool off the unit, but that rules out most simple or cheap solitions
Get a mini split, and be done with it. Almost all of them are made from the same 3 factories and have pretty much the same parts. Buy one that fits your budget and install it yourself or hire someone to install it. No need for a heater when these exist now. They’re cheap, do both cooling and heat, and work great for stuff like this.
@AA5B @SupraMario I hear that some are coming with hoses pre-charged with gas now so you can self install?
Those are the easy way. You have to hide the excess hoses since you can’t cut to fit. They cost a lot more though to if you don’t mind the work you can save money getting the other kind (which requires an EPA certification - easy to get I’m told)
They are, yeah
Yep, they’re nearly fool proof at this point.
Not sure how much this will help you, but my house is heated by electric wall heaters like this with unit-mounted thermostats. I recently installed a real thermostat for the one in the main room, by using this relay that I wired with a three wire 24 volt off the shelf loom like this that I bought by the foot from the closest to me store. You could use a smart thermostat unlike me. I used this site for help but mine is 120v. That link, tho, is for a 240v and may be more helpful.
Importantly, I have a background in electric (DC) and access to folks with household electric.
Anyway, what you want isn’t hard and can be done safely and easily. But if you are not an electrician, it is best to us a contractor. My heat is on a dedicated circuit, yours should be, too.
Best wishes and be warm!
The electrician is an easy choice in this case. I do have knowledge and experience without household electric but recognize this as a project I wouldn’t complete in reasonable time and quality.
Notably my garage has no electric except the light and the EV charger, and it would also be useful to have an outlet. I’ll at least get a quote for a small subpanel to give me more future options
Not trying to spread fear. But remotely running heaters could be a fire hazard. Please be cautious
For sure it’s a concern and part of the reason for over complicating what a space heater could theoretically do.
For safety I want something off the ground so nothing can fall on or next to it, I want a dedicated circuit, and I have a priority on making sure it gets turned off when not in use.
Ny garage will not have anything flammable since my car is an EV and I park it outside, my lawn equipment is battery powered, my snow blower is battery powered, and any chemicals go in the shed
You mean like all of the millions of them in every house, building, business around the world?
If it’s 240, it’s installed. It’ll require a proper 240 circuit for its type, not something the average homeowner can do, so an electrician will be necessary.
Technically, pretty much every heater is “remote” (except portables). Or do you crawl into your attic or crawl space whenever you want to adjust the temp?
Do you turn off your heat when you leave the house? Water heater?
Business have used heat and cooling on timer and remote systems for 75+ years, and here you come fear-mongering some nonsense about “remote heaters”.
Moreover, an electric hearer is about as safe as you can get - nothing being oxidized, the heater element is well shielded, with a compressor type fan pushing air through it.
If the fan stops, the unit stops. If the heater stops, the fan stops, it’s all tied together with controls that have been around since the 50’s (and mostly now electronic). Even controls from back then are crazy robust and simple.
A gas heater won’t even attempt to fire if it doesn’t detective negative pressure in the chamber, which would mean the exhaust blower isn’t running. And we’re not talking gas here, so the controllers even simpler.
If you can find one with IR remote, you can use something like broadlink rm mini 3 or 4 to learn commands
A second option I can think off is If heater has a button (not touch ones), you could use a fingerbot and add a temp sensor further away on direction of the fan so you can make an automation to ensure it is on or off
The IR blaster is not a bad idea. While I didn’t notice that, I wasn’t looking for it. I do see some with Bluetooth remotes and I imagine there’s similar I could look into
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Might be able to use a baseboard heater thermostat.
Slightly odd option is to connect it to a car charger like Technology Connections did, and then automate the cafe charger. And then you have a car charger for the future.
Another idea is to consider a mini split heat pump. It won’t be hot, but it’ll take the edge off.
I do already have a car charger but need it for my car, plus it’s outside.
I already ruled out the mini-split as not really suited to what I want it to do. I want the garage to get warm fast- and the efficiency function is to make sure it’s off when not in use
Same problems I have… I’m going to have to insulate the garage and put in a minisplit sometime.
Yeah, your last point might be an issue for this. But if you manage to find a heater that works as a simple on/off, this z-wave high power relay might suit your needs: https://www.thesmartesthouse.com/products/zooz-z-wave-long-range-high-power-relay-zen78-800lr
I would be very careful with automating a heater in your garage, as they’re obviously a fire risk, especially when unattended. I would make sure whatever automation you land on has safeties based on if you’re home, if a smoke alarm goes off, or if connection to your controller is lost (this one would be more difficult to automate, but is probably doable with an esp32 or similar).
It you’re using a relay to turn it on and off then just put like a 90F furnace high limit switch on the air inlet side of the heater and run the control signal for the relay through that high limit switch. That way if the air going into the space heater gets too hot from the room getting too hot or the area around the heater gets too hot from the fan failing, it’ll shut off. Also furnace safeties are cheap, easy to find, and already designed to fail open circuit for safety.
And built into the heaters already.
Clearly people here have never tried to maintain these things - the safety in them today is annoyingly extensive. They fail for the most trivial things (which really is for the best, just a nuisance from a maintenance perspective).
To be fair, I don’t think I’ve ever actually bought a space heater. I just get them from places and they’re always from the early 2000s at best. The ones I’ve worked on usually only have a fuse in them as far as safety features go. I’m glad new ones are more safe though because they used to be deathtraps.
For sure on the safety, and this is one of the reasons I’m going for something intended for purpose, rather than portable space heaters. The other reason is power. Basically I want to ensure the heater is Always off unless I want to work out, but that also means sufficient power to heat the garage quickly in the coldest months
Something mounted on wall or ceiling is a critical safety feature, so it can’t get knocked over nor anything fall on it. There will never be anything flammable in my garage: it’s too small for cars and I converted to battery lawn equipment
I even see heaters with automatic 2 hr shutoff, but not automatable. That’s probably my backup plan
Realistically my priority goal is alerting and shutoff: remote pre-heat would be a bonus
Just as a backup you might consider putting some atandalone zigbee/z wave temp sensor in the garage just as a double check that the heater is operating as it should
For sure, and it’ll be a nice addition to my house data. I like seeing data even when I have no practical use and already graph 5 different temperature sensors!
I personally would just find something and add an esp32 in to augment control.
But a really simple solution would be to add a switchbot or something similar. Just be sure that whatever heater you pick up has a switch you can easily control.
Im not familiar with those in person, only on paper. Would a switchbot interfere with normal use of the button? Would normal use of the button be likely to interfere with the switchbot?
Ideally smart devices continue to work as if they were dumb devices. In this case I have a teenager wanting to use heat to work out but he hasn’t been interested in my automation, and an electric bill payer (me) wanting to ensure the heater is off when not in use
I’ve never used them either. But I’ve seen pictures and as long as they are setup correctly the devices buttons are still able to be pressed and turned on manually.
@AA5B Surely a split system A/c would be more efficient?
Yes it would be more efficient but too expensive. I expect to use it for short bursts of heat - like get the garage warm for two hours to work out. I don’t need cooling and I don’t expect to use it frequently enough for the efficiency to make it worthwhile. The overall heat output is more important, to warm the space quickly.
A challenge factor is this garage is masonry so creating holes is more difficult, less desirable.
A standard garage heater has the power to heat the space quickly, means I don’t have to create holes in masonry, and is cheap to biy
I would imagine any proper heater would be able to be connected to a thermostat, just like in your house. I have a gas one that connects to a Honeywell that is connected to home assistant.
Look in the manual for how to wire an external thermostat.
For instance, this dynaglo one mentions it on page 8. https://cdn.menardc.com/main/items/media/GHPGR001/Install_Instruct/8474ba55-9c16-4829-bf58-02baa7c521ac.pdf
Thanks. I should have thought of this but assumed consumer appliances never have “advanced” features unless they’re listed in the product description.
Your approach is much more optimistic but got the answer right away.
I wonder if any local stores have exactly that model …………
