https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/Hun4EaiSQnNmB9xkd/tell-people-as-early-as-possible-it-s-not-going-to-work-out

archive: https://archive.is/NSVXR

Oliver wrote an internal Lightcone Infrastructure memo that lists the top enemies of the Rationality movement. He saw fit to post his Enemies List to the site, because that’s a very normal thing to do.

no. 2 is a neoreactionary troll who ran a downvote bot in 2013-2014.

Emile Torres is only #3, sorry Emile some of us are just better at increasing existential risk

no. 4 is Ziz. I am officially considered worse than the literally murderous death cult.

what can i say some of us have just got it

also I trounce complete pikers like (checks notes) Peter Thiel

LessWrong used to call themselves a “phyg” in the hope that the word “cult” would not show up in Google so much as being associated with them

  • corbin@awful.systems
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    19 hours ago

    This is a list of apostates. The idea is not to actually detail the folks who do the most damage to the cult’s reputation, but to attack the few folks who were once members and left because they were no longer interested in being part of a cult. These attacks are usually motivated by emotions as much as a desire to maintain control over the rest of the cult; in all cases, the sentiment is that the apostate dared to defy leadership. Usually, attacks on apostates are backed up by some sort of enforcement mechanism, from calls for stochastic terrorism to accusations of criminality; here, there’s not actually a call to do anything external, possibly because Habryka realizes that the optics are bad but more likely because Habryka doesn’t really have much power beyond those places where he’s already an administrator. (That said, I would encourage everybody to become aware of, say, CoS’s Fair Game policy or Noisy Investigation policy to get an idea of what kinds of attacks could occur.)

    There are several prominent names that aren’t here. I’d guess that Habryka hasn’t been meditating over this list for a long time; it’s just the first few people that came to mind when he wrote this note. This is somewhat reassuring, as it suggests that he doesn’t fully understand how cultural critiques of LW affect the perception of LW more broadly; he doesn’t realize how many people e.g. Breadtube reaches. Also, he doesn’t understand that folks like SBF and Yarvin do immense reputational damage to rationalist-adjacent projects, although he seems to understand that the main issue with Zizians is not that they are Cringe but that they have been accused of multiple violent felonies.

    Not many sneers to choose from, but I think one commenter gets it right:

    In other groups with I’m familiar, you would kick out people you think are actually a danger or you think they might do something that brings your group into disrepute. But otherwise, I think it’s a sign of being a cult If you kick people for not going along with the group dogma.

    • David Gerard@awful.systemsOPM
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      18 hours ago

      I was never even in to be an apostate! Mind you, Scientology used to issue public SP declares on normal people and only stopped when it didn’t go so well for them.

      I think it’s also incorrect to claim I’ve damaged their reputation (cos it fucking deserves damage) more than Emile, who absolutely goes for the fuckin throat.

    • scruiser@awful.systems
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      19 hours ago

      This is somewhat reassuring, as it suggests that he doesn’t fully understand how cultural critiques of LW affect the perception of LW more broadly;

      This. On Reddit (which isn’t actually mainstream common knowledge per se, but I still find it encouraging and indicative that the common sense perspective is winning out) whenever I see the topic of lesswrong or AI Doom come up on unrelated subreddits, I’ll see a bunch of top upvoted comments mentioning the cult spin offs or that the main thinker’s biggest achievement is Harry Potter fanfic or Roko’s Basilisk or any of the other easily comprehensible indicators that these are not serious thinkers with legitimate thoughts.

      • hrrrngh@awful.systems
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        9 hours ago

        I’ve seen the same thing and it’s reassuring lol.

        I lurk on subreddit drama and curated tumblr, and I feel like the common reaction to LW has gone from a few negative comments and “really? that’s crazy”'s five years ago to being much more aware. Years ago you’d see maybe one person familiar with them and then a couple people respond who are totally out of the loop and maybe you’d see one crazy rationalist chime in to nuh-uh them. Now, anything rationalist-related usually has a bunch of people bringing up the harry potter or acausal robot god stuff right away.

        I use the tag feature a lot in RES to keep track of people who I like hearing what they have to say. Years ago I mostly saw the same names when LW stuff came up, but now there’s always a ton of people I’ve never seen before who are familiar with it.

        It’s also reassuring because I really don’t want to be the person to say anything first and it’s easier to chime in on a discussion someone else has already started.

        • blakestacey@awful.systemsM
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          5 hours ago

          The problem with writing a Harry Potter fanfic as your cult recruitment tool is that you end up having written a Harry Potter fanfic as your cult recruitment tool.