If the movie or show doesn’t have a decent twist (ala something like The Good Place in every season basically) then I’m just constantly bored.
PLEASE CHECK THIS OUT. Our own Aeronmelon is going through some shit at the moment and could use some help. Check it out here and consider an upvote or a comment to push it into activity. Sorry, not something I do often or will be spamming. But I care about my friend and if I can get a couple more eyes on his situation then I’m going to try to do what I can. (Last one I promise. Just twice)
Yeah, something that makes me really like movies is when I can’t predict what happens. A lot of the time I’m like “that guy’s the traitor” halfway through and then just waiting for things to play out. Doesn’t make for good experience.
I was once watching American Gods and there is a scene where Mr. Wednesday tells Shadow Moon “Oh, it’s my day” when he learns that the day is Wednesday.
I began to think about what did he mean “my day”. Then I remembered that >!Wednesday derives from “Woden’s Day”, “Woden” is another word for “Odin”. And thus Mr. Wednesday is Odin.!< This was then revealed in one of the last episodes of the season.
I may predict things but I’m also able to immerse myself in things pretty easily. Sometimes I feel like The Watcher.
Yes. This is why I can’t watch TV shows anymore, they all follow the same patterns where a seemingly normal interaction is stretched out over multiple episodes and delves into unrealistic and horrible/comedic shit. Every single time. I already know that 3 more characters are going to be introduced in seasons 2 and 3 (if it even gets that far…eyeballs Netflix), and the stories will be so interwoven and complicated that the only way out is either killing someone, or they somehow figure out the Power Of Friendship.
However, I thoroughly enjoy shit tier self-aware movies like Fast & Furious, Evil Dead, Sharknado, and such, because they are so ridiculous. The producers knew exactly what they were doing and clearly enjoyed every moment of it.
“Danger to manifold”
Shut up!
Floor pan falls out
Peak movie
Idk, I feel like knowing standard story structure is a way to help you get more understanding out of a story. IMO, a good story is predictable in some ways. If knowing the ending takes all the fun out of it, then it probably wasn’t a very good story.
Also: I generally watch for two specific moments in any movie: the “meeting with the goddess” and the “atonement with the father”. Those two scenes really tell you a lot about what the writer cares about and how they think about their characters.
Also: I generally watch for two specific moments in any movie: the “meeting with the goddess” and the “atonement with the father”. Those two scenes really tell you a lot about what the writer cares about and how they think about their characters.
Ooooh, I’m intrigued! Tell me more… I love a good trope.
It looks like I’ve been using these terms in some bastardized hybrid of Campbell’s formulation of the hero’s journey and Vogler’s (which is the one I learned in school), so don’t take this as canonical, this is just what I look for:
For me, the “meeting with the goddess” moment isn’t the kinda trivial “this will be important later” exchange like Frodo meeting Galadriel, but an experience of pure joy in the midst of utter sorrow, so like when Moana’s grandma appears as a ghostly manta ray and reignites her determination. In romance stories, this is where the couple gets that perfect date where everything seems effortless and transcendent.
It can take many forms, but the important thing is just that this is a glimpse of what victory could look like, without having actually achieved it yet. It’s a chance for us to see the true, unbridled motivation of the protagonist in a way that doesn’t feel contrived like just stating it to the audience, and it usually has a stark contrast to the horrors that are currently going on in the overall arc of the story. It can be one of the most memorable moments outside of the climax of the fight against the “big bad”.
It’s usually either right before or right after the “all is lost” moment (well, the first one – the one before they really form their initial plan to take down the “big bad” and see that initial plan fail and have to pivot to something that incorporates their mastery of their original self into their new mastery of the supernatural world they dove into).
My take on “atonement with the father” is more conventional. It’s that moment where the hero says “I’m going forward with this journey even if you think it’s foolish, I’ve learned to love myself for exactly who I am in a way that you never could”. If you imagine a scene where someone says “Don’t you dare walk out that door”, and the hero does it anyway, that’s the atonement with the father.
It doesn’t have to be a literal parent or even parental figure. The important thing is just that it shows the hero recognizing that they had previously accepted some artificial constraint on who they were able to be, or what they were able to do, and they’re ready to move past that constraint.
Sometimes this is linked together with a “temptation” moment, where the nay-saying figure has an appealing offer like “Give this up, come home with me and take over the company like you always wanted” or whatever.
The most powerful ones, I think, are less about the authority figure and more about confronting something within the hero themself.
The reason that I like this moment in particular is that it has to be tied to something from their old life, before they started their adventure. So it sets up a contrast for later on, when they’ll have to incorporate something positive from their old life in order to defeat the big bad for real. Here, in this moment before the big battle, they’re discarding something about their old life – what will they choose to keep and emphasize later on?
In Guardians of the Galaxy, Quill rejects the abusive relationship with his father figure Yondu and later on embraces his friendship with his new buddies in order to defeat the big bad. It’s a nice little push-and-pull: he’s becoming more self-reliant, and careful in his social entanglements… but not to the point where he’s forsaking the need for friends and teamwork.
Anyway, those are the two moments I watch for. One that’s a starry-eyed vision of what their journey’s victory could look like, just at the moment where they need that boost. And one that’s a sober self-evaluation and rejection of past behavior. If they do it right, both of those moments should have some kind of echo in act 3, so most of the time I feel like if they nail those two moments the rest of the story is probably gonna at least be good if not great.
Those are great interpretations, I love it. Thanks!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero's_journey
The Meeting with the Goddess - This is where the hero gains items given to him that will help him in the future.
Atonement with the Father/Abyss - In this step, the hero must confront and be initiated by whatever holds the ultimate power in their life. In many myths and stories, this is the father or a father figure who has life-and-death power. This is the center point of the journey. All the previous steps have been moving into this place, all that follow will move out from it. Although an encounter with a male entity most frequently symbolizes this step, it does not have to be a male—just someone or something with incredible power.
It all seems like a stretch to me. Someone found/created these in a story, maybe some other folks repeat the pattern, but some significant portion is just errors in our pattern recognition, people applying these themes post-hoc.
To be fair, in order to tell a “good” story, certain literary devices must be used in order for the characters and the plot to make sense. Otherwise it’s just rambling. That’s why classic stories are classics. But I do think you make a valid point in that these literary devices were noticed and defined much later on, as civilization evolved and rediscovered old stories (the older Greek epics, such as Homer’s Odyssey, comes to mind); those literary devices can definitely be interpreted and even implemented in various ways depending on the author and reader.
This applies even with music. Take Chevelle, for example; their frontman, Pete, has written every single one of their songs to date. He doesn’t follow the “traditional” lyrical style, and rarely uses rhymes. Yet somehow, they manage to knock out banger after banger. Also, Pete famously enjoys hearing how others interpret Chevelle songs. Same with Rush - Neil was a lyrical genius. My dad actually used one of their songs (The Trees) for a poem assignment in high school 😂
I’ve watched so many movies, I’m pretty good at guessing the ending of most films partway into them. No spoilers ahead, but my wife and I just watched Last Night in Soho yesterday and I accidentally spoiled half of the ending, midway through. I didn’t catch the twist ending, but I definitely saw the direction the story was headed.
Also, when the main character was screaming accusations at the old guy, I was screaming at the screen, “Where’s your proof? Why are you making assumptions all of a sudden? How did we get here?” Turns out I was right about that one too.
My wife has watched almost as many movies as me and she also likes to theorize what’s going to happen. But she sometimes gets annoyed with me because I’m really good at picking up where the plot is headed. She was super excited to show me The Illusionist because she saw it once and thought the twist ending was spectacular… and I guessed it really early into the film. She was so mad at me, haha.
My brother and I have established that I don’t try to call the shots when we watch a movie together for the first time, but it’s ok if I call out when someone is about to die but only just before they die.
He also has ADHD, but he can turn that part off for movies and that makes me kind of envious.
Every
Fucking
Time.
Except Tenet? I still can’t predict it I love it.
It’s also why I’m so anxious all the time. My brain is calculating all the distinct possibilities of events based on the choices I’ve made.
I annoyed the friend who introduced me to Buffy the Vampire Slayer when I would frequently predict plot twists and even specific lines in the show on my first watch through.
Yo. Buffy is peak tropes. The site “TV Tropes” was created for Buffy. Invented the term “Big Bad”, the first episodic show to have an overarching story across the season. The only femme in the “Notable Examples” list of “The Chosen One” trope article on Wikipedia. Buffy is using every literary archetype, story diamond formula, and third thing, in its story telling. If you like process and figuring how things are made, Buffy changed everything in TV, and it’s a worthy exercise to look at how and why.
I can recommend 21 rewatch podcasts, and share my playlists if you’re ready to go Deep. I haven’t actually started my rewatch yet, almost done prepping, been 2 months since I had the idea tho… I really hope this isn’t something I made too big and is overwhelming now
I really hope this isn’t something I made too big and is overwhelming now
Narrarator: It was.
I mean… a show like Buffy is known and accepted to be formulaic. IIRC, Whedon literally referred it as a monster of the week episode vs a “big bad” plot episode. Unfortunately, to most people, pointing it out doesnt make you seem clever, it just makes you obnoxious.
edit: and, to clear, I am not trying to be rude. I am mostly writing about myself, here.
This is one of the reasons I really enjoyed the first few seasons of American horror story. At first I was like “oh yeah I know why this is going” but they change it up often enough where you had no idea where the last episode would leave you.
I love that though, maybe it’s just my writer brain talking but I love when either I’m decently surprised by a twist, or predict it and go, “Hah! I knew it, that’s so cool!”
SPAMMING OVER 30 COMMUNITIES IS INAPPROPRIATE.
So maybe stop spamming this comment everywhere?
They’re not even correct. I don’t post in over 30 communities and I only added the text to 29 posts. So… They’re accusing me of something that’s not even accurate while doing the thing they’re accusing me of.
Even if it was in however many communities, you’re not posting the same thing in each one. By definition, not spam.
I feel like you definitely earned yourself a soapbox. You’re a pillar of the community and many days your posts were literally the first thing to make me laugh :-)
Eh. I wouldn’t say I earned it. Taking advantage of being a recognizable name? Oh 100%. I can’t deny that. My literal thought process was “I post a lot and people see my name a lot so there’s a chance someone can see him and help him where I can’t.” But I don’t want to do it at the expense of something else. There’s a reason why despite adding that text to the posts, all the posts were still relevant to the community. Didn’t have a title drawing attention to it. They were just there for if someone did want to look into it. And I messaged every (active) mod of every community that I posted in. It got removed from a couple communities. Another one has a mod put a warning. That’s fine and I get it. I’m not pissed or upset or anything. I am fully aware that what I’m doing is definitely privileged and taking advantage of that. If this ruins my Lemmy reputation then that really sucks but I have zero regrets for trying to help a friend.
*looks at comment history*
Good god.
Yeah… they literally said ‘tit for tat’ so it’s not like they’re anything more than a hypocrite here. “YOU DID A BAD THING AND NOW I SHALL BECOME THE BAD TO SHOW YOU HOW BAD YOU ARE” lol
I’m literally using their post history to uptoot every one if your comments/posts, hopefully boosting activity. So they’re helping more than they would have ever wanted
Drop a comment on the link that it’s going to as well! It helps push it up on the activity feed for that community and for All so that other people can see it <3 If you don’t mind of course. I ain’t about to try and force you to do something you don’t want. But my whole goal here is just visibility. Not asking anyone to donate. Asking people to look and consider their options.
Thank you though. A lot. I know he appreciates it too <3
On it, cap 🫡 Your posts have been a pillar of the Lemmy community for as long as I’ve been around, least we can do is help with visibility :)
