• sudoer777@lemmy.ml
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    5 hours ago

    Right now the only decently speced phone with mainline Linux support is the Oneplus 6, and the only one I can find is being sold for $2000

  • leastaction@lemmy.ca
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    6 hours ago

    It seems to me that part of the problem is overreliance on phones as computing devices. A lot of things, like banking, are best done on an actual computer. We have become too dependent on phones.

    • DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world
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      3 hours ago

      Your phone has likely much better security for your banking apps than your computer, unless you run really niche setup like QubesOS.

      • traceur402@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        52 minutes ago

        We as a society should be rethinking the term “security”, if it’s come to mean submitting to being jerked around however best suits some private company’s interests instead of our own. If there’s a central platform for its security benefit it should be democratically controlled instead of controlled by what are effectively feudal lords, or perhaps even an occupying force

      • Pycorax@sh.itjust.works
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        23 minutes ago

        I’m not sure how it works the way where you live but where I live, the way the banking apps are implemented completely violate MFA. They rely on SMS verification which is absurd since if you’re phone is already compromised, no doubt your SMSes are too. There’s no true multi-device authentication in place and this has led to a huge number of victims being scammed after their devices get compromised by a phishing attack.

        The desktop and phone are both insecure, proper security should not have all your eggs in one basket.

    • twice_hatch@midwest.social
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      3 hours ago

      Yeah but it’s “we” as in everyone not “we” as in “Lemmy commenters”.

      So the network effect will keep the average person on a locked-down phone that can’t run anything anti-regime

    • hkspowers@lemmy.today
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      3 hours ago

      Yep I absolutely refuse to put any banking apps on my phone. The only thing that has access to my bank is me physically going there or logging into their website via my own computer. Fuck any app that asks for access to my bank account including autopay services thorugh third parties.

      The only third party serive I use for payments is paypal and that only goes to my credit card.

    • DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world
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      2 hours ago

      Not for me, no. I love the sandboxing and permissions of android (GrapheneOS). Honestly, desktop OSs should learn from it. Also, android is a lot easier to use, especially on small form factor devices.

      • DarkSideOfTheMoon@lemmy.world
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        3 hours ago

        Android is so big because the community let them embrace it. Since the beginning the community should have worked in a true open solution. Now it’s really late to try to make a Linux phone

        • HugeNerd@lemmy.ca
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          47 minutes ago

          Luddite. I’ve let AI manage my finances and mortgage for about a month now. Hold on, there’s a knock at the door, some dudes with a big van or something

    • Crozekiel@lemmy.zip
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      8 hours ago

      Yea… I’m really disappointed with the timing of FuriLabs new phone which is mostly a downgrade over the previous one. I’ve been window shopping phones for a couple of months and am at a loss for what to do. Even spent some time considering a dumb flip phone that can work as a wifi-hotspot and use a small linux tablet or something for the more involved stuff, but couldn’t find a good tablet option that wasn’t huge (would still want it to fit in my pocket) or come with the same problems.

        • Crozekiel@lemmy.zip
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          8 hours ago

          As far as I can tell, it’s just de-googled android… It is going to have the same eventual problems as any LineageOS, e/OS/, or GrapheneOS phone will have.

          Unfortunately we need to come to terms with the fact that 1) Android is not Linux after all of the bastardizations Google has done to it and the control they maintain. 2) We need hardware mfrs on board for fully Open Source drivers for mobile hardware.

          Basically all of the Linux phone options I’ve looked at have been disappointing. You’ve got people making open source OS like Sailfish or PostmarketOS or UbuntuTouch, but they only work for pretty narrow (and old) hardware and they don’t get 100% functionality on basically any of the hardware. FuriLabs was the first one I’d seen claiming you could use all of the features of the hardware, but even then it is using a bunch of (basically) compatibility layers to trick android apps into running, so I don’t even know if that will work after Google gets done with their plans.

  • supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz
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    11 hours ago

    I will literally go without a smartphone if Google does this, this is insane I would have bought an iphone if I wanted a junk device I don’t actually own.

    • Jinni@sh.itjust.works
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      9 hours ago

      If this effects de-googled android, I will probably start investing in Linux phones.

      I would rather have a limited phone than has full freedom than one that makes everyone go through Google.

      • lazynooblet@lazysoci.al
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        7 hours ago

        It won’t. This is for 99% of users with their Google enabled devices. It’s still shit and it will effect the 1% indirectly by the reduction of available software outside the play store.

    • Flatfire@lemmy.ca
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      10 hours ago

      The crazy part is this may make iOS the better alternative when considering the emergence of third-party app stores and Apple’s loosening grip on their ecosystem.

      LineageOS is still a good option too, for anyone who would prefer to keep the phone they have

      • DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works
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        4 hours ago

        Not really. They are converging onto the exact same thing. 3rd party stores are allowed, but needs [Google/Apple]'s approval.

        If you are big and have teeth (like Epic Games), you will (probably) be allowed, if you are small like a single open source developer, the can shut you down city dubious “security”/“ToS” issue, and you probably don’t have the money to sue.

      • Pirate2377@lemmy.zip
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        10 hours ago

        iOS would be the better alternative, if it wasn’t for the hardware they run on. After all, Apple is infamous for their blatant planned obsolescence on their iPhones since the iPhone 6. Unfortunately, Google seems to be following Apple in this way as well since they launched an update that made the Pixel 6a’s battery so much worse than before. Therefore, we must all have a dumb phone + Linux phone set up…or something

        • DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works
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          4 hours ago

          iOS would be the better alternative

          • Already can’t “sideload”. iOS will be just as restrictive as Android in 2026-2027.
          • Apps immediately gets killed in the background. Can’t even transfer data to a USB Drive without needing to downloading a separate app, and need the app in the foreground.
          • iPhones cannot multitask
          • Developer account costs $99 **per year. On Google its only a $25 one time fee (for the near future, at least, I can’t predict what they will do in like 2035)
        • enumerator4829@sh.itjust.works
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          8 hours ago

          I can agree on Apple not really having a properly supported hardware repair ecosystem, and actively working against third party repair.

          But the software? When Samsung and friends had 2-4 years of security updates, Apple had almost twice that. The iPhone XS still has support, 6 years after end-of-sale, 7 years from release. Normal people can’t be expected to flash their phones with LineageOS. The situation is slightly better nowadays, but Samsung still seems to be depreciating 3 year old devices: https://endoflife.date/samsung-mobile

          • Flatfire@lemmy.ca
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            7 hours ago

            To add, Apple has actually been making amends regarding repairability. It’s small steps, but leagues ahead of what’s offered for popular android manufacturers, while still maintaining their IP68 ratings on most devices.

            I can’t speak to how they make their parts available to third parties (seems to be a grey area), but there has been a reasonable focus with the last couple generations of iPhones that ensures the device can be repaired from either side.

            Overall, the tide seems to have shifted. If you’re going to be at the mercy of a corporate giant in order to keep up with modernity, then Apple is currently holding the dimly lit torch of consumer rights.

        • Nikls94@lemmy.world
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          9 hours ago

          Apple is infamous for their blatant planned obsolescence on their iPhones since the iPhone 6

          They learned from it. The phone toggles itself when the battery health is at 80% max capacity, but this is toggleable. Also, the iPhone 11 still runs smooth.

      • cley_faye@lemmy.world
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        9 hours ago

        They both go for the least open option. If asking for all devs registration and validation from google is viable and legally sound, apple will do the same if that’s not already in the pipe.

        Both “stores” are targeted for the same issues.

  • barnaclebutt@lemmy.world
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    12 hours ago

    Isn’t this illegal in Europe? Was that the whole point of forcing apple to allow alternative app stores?

    • progandy@feddit.org
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      9 hours ago

      Technically, third party app stores are allowed. Developers “only” register with google to receive a developer certificate. Isn’t apple doing the same thing in response to the EU regulations and that has been allowed?

      • Jason2357@lemmy.ca
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        9 hours ago

        Seems like a weasel around the requirement to get rid of the actual benefit of 3rd party stores.

  • blueworld@piefed.world
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    12 hours ago

    For those in Europe, write your representatives.

    Fro me f-droid’s post: https://f-droid.org/2025/09/29/google-developer-registration-decree.html

    What do we propose?

    Regulatory and competition authorities should look carefully at Google’s proposed activities, and ensure that policies designed to improve security are not abused to consolidate monopoly control. We urge regulators to safeguard the ability of alternative app stores and open-source projects to operate freely, and to protect developers who cannot or will not comply with exclusionary registration schemes and demands for personal information.

    If you are a developer or user who values digital freedom, you can help. Write to your Member of ParliamentCongressperson or other representative, sign petitions in defense of sideloading, and contact the European Commission’s Digital Markets Act (DMA) team to express why preserving open distribution matters. By making your voice heard, you help defend not only F-Droid, but the principle that software should remain a commons, accessible and free from unnecessary corporate gatekeeping.

    https://f-droid.org/2025/09/04/twif.html [^antifeatures]: F-Droid Anti-Features overview: https://f-droid.org/docs/Anti-Features/ [^howmanyusers]: How many F-Droid users are there, exactly? We don’t know, because we don’t track users or have any registration. “No user accounts, by design”: https://f-droid.org/2022/02/28/no-user-accounts-by-design.html [^sideloading]: ‘“Sideload” is a weird euphemism that the mobile duopoly came up with; it means “installing software without our permission,” which we used to just call “installing software” (because you don’t need a manufacturer’s permission to install software on your computer).’ — Pluralistic: Darth Androidhttps://pluralistic.net/2025/09/01/fulu/ [^playprotect]: “Google Play Protect checks your apps and devices for harmful behavior”: https://support.google.com/googleplay/answer/2812853

  • kadu@scribe.disroot.org
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    13 hours ago

    Technically illegal where I live.

    In Brazil you can’t sell a device with a given feature and then remove said feature in a software update. Even Apple, known for never allowing downgrades, was forced to downgrade and pay a fine to a customer after his iPad 3 updated to iOS 7 and lost an iOS 6 feature.

    In other words… every single Android device sold until today in Brazil allows sideloading. Even if a single customer uses a sideloaded app, removing the ability to sideload freely would be illegal, and because the original feature didn’t require a developer signature it can’t be enforced now.

    The issue is, as always, if this went to court somebody would have to manage to explain to a tech illiterate judge what a “developer signature” is, how this relates to “sideloading” and so on.

    • AndyMFK@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      58 minutes ago

      technically you will still be able to install apps from outside the play store, but the developer will need to verify their identity with google.

      Of course, most developers will refuse to do so (myself included), and so most apps will not be able to be installed. From a technical perspective, installing apps from other sources will still be allowed. So i can see judges ruling that this is not a feature removal.

      You and I both know this is google killing non play store apps, but I don’t think the tech illiterate judges will see it that way.

    • ɯᴉuoʇuɐ@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      10 hours ago

      The problem might be that Google will argue this isn’t a downgrade at all, but an upgrade (for “security” reasons). I don’t want to be a pessimist, but the tech illiterate judges could eat that up.

    • Lojcs@piefed.social
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      12 hours ago

      … Brazil is one of the first countries this’ll go into effect and I also remember something about how that first batch of countries was chosen because their governmemts support this change.

      • kadu@scribe.disroot.org
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        12 hours ago

        because their governmemts support this change.

        I can see how Google’s PR team might use this argument, but it’s certainly illegal in Brazil so our government most definitely isn’t supporting this decision. Also, it needs to be way more specific than “government” - who exactly is endorsing this? Procon? Anatel? Polícia Federal?

        Either way, the actual reason for targeting Brazil as one of the first is because we do love our piracy, which naturally translates into sideloading being frequent.

    • scarabic@lemmy.world
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      8 hours ago

      Starting next year, Android will require all apps to be registered by verified developers in order to be installed by users on certified Android devices.

      Are they actually proposing to make any previously sold devices “certified” through a software update, though? Your points are right on if this edict applied to all devices.

      • kadu@scribe.disroot.org
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        7 hours ago

        A “certified Android device” is a device running Google Play Services, Play Protect, Google’s WideVine DRM scheme and a few other requirements. If you purchase a device from a known manufacturer, like Samsung, you’re falling into this category.

      • ☂️-@lemmy.ml
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        9 hours ago

        that’s what we generally mean. he has some ideas about things other than software we are best not to give too much attention.

    • manxu@piefed.social
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      15 hours ago

      I never wanted him to be wrong more than right now. Except for tomorrow, it’s probably going to bé worse, tomorrow

      • damon@lemmy.world
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        15 hours ago

        Except when it comes to women and girls, he’s absolutely wrong

      • yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de
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        14 hours ago

        I sometimes like to read his political posts:

        https://www.stallman.org/archives/2025-jul-oct.html

        And honestly? I mostly agree with them? Like this:

        ABC ordered to pay Antoinette Lattouf another $150,000 for unlawful termination over Gaza Instagram post.

        But a company faced with enormous threats wielded by fascist officials who demand that certain views be suppressed will treat such penalties as the normal cost of sucking up.

        The [Israeli] army says that HAMAS is using apartment buildings for “surveillance”, and has bombed some of those buildings to destroy them. Based on this logic, the army might bomb every tall building in Gaza City with the large bombs that the US is providing

        He has some questionable beliefs as well, though for unusual reasons. He accepts non-binary people but refuses to use they/them pronouns because he doesn’t like the ambiguity of singular/plural pronouns. So he has invented the neopronouns per/pers to refer to singular non-binary persons. I genuinely think no other person on this planet could hold this opinion.

        • sudoer777@lemmy.ml
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          26 minutes ago

          He accepts non-binary people but refuses to use they/them pronouns because he doesn’t like the ambiguity of singular/plural pronouns.

          I agree with this criticism, but the entire English language is full of bullshit so you might as well consider using Esperanto

        • primrosepathspeedrun@anarchist.nexus
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          14 hours ago

          Okay that’s all cool or cool-and-stubbornly-autistic. But he has some other opinions that are not, about consent and age.

          So the blanket ‘fuck yeah, stallman!’ Doesn’t really fly anymore.

          • yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de
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            14 hours ago

            Hasn’t he admitted to changing his opinion after learning about the effects on children? I’m not in the loop about this.

            But yeah, you definitely shouldn’t treat his words as gospel. A lot of questionable-at-best stuff in there.

            • kadu@scribe.disroot.org
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              13 hours ago

              Hasn’t he admitted to changing his opinion after learning about the effects on children?

              He did. The argument against him was half based on misquotes and incomplete sentences, but the other half was indeed once his opinion - he argued that age of consent was a dumb concept and that instead it should be based on what the child wants to do and any harm they were subjected to.

              He later on said he regretted this view because it was explained to him that there’s no ability to consent and this always causes harm to the child. His original arguments were, in typical Stallman fashion, quite obsessed with definitions themselves, almost as if the subject at hand didn’t really matter he was just bothered about how the definition had some flaws.

              But even with that in mind… I can’t feel comfortable knowing he defended this point of view, and it does significantly harm my opinion about him.

              • GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca
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                11 hours ago

                Everything you said there is pretty typical with high functioning ASD, up to and including others being uncomfortable with past behavior and statements.

                I can’t say I disagree with him - in an ideal world. Now all we need is a world where it’s easy enough to tell if someone is mature enough to make those kinds of decisions, no one uses power imbalances to allow them to achieve their desires, kids are fully aware of the impact their decisions will have on them decades in the future, and on and on. That’s clearly not the world we live in, and I expect it will never be, and so we err on the side of caution, and don’t condone children engaging in certain activities until they’re older, and even then only with people of a similar age until such a time where trying to stop them from engaging in potentially reckless behavior is more harmful than allowing them to do so.

        • _cnt0@sh.itjust.works
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          9 hours ago

          I criticized singular they/them for increasing language ambiguity and suggested replacing it with something new like xe/xer multiple times. The reply is usually a shitstorm and downvote tornado. I’ve given up on that front.

          • UnpledgedCatnapTipper@piefed.blahaj.zone
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            4 hours ago

            Probably because singular “they” predates singular “you” grammatically. Should we go back to using thou and thee instead of the singular you as well?

            • waddle_dee@lemmy.world
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              59 minutes ago

              I always found this argument funny because how would you use pronouns for someone whose gender you do not know? They. It’s they. E.g. you are given the sentence: Jordan went to the store to buy apples. And you want to ask a followup question regarding how many, you reply: How many apples did they buy? It’s not that complicated. They has been used for gender ambiguity in everyone’s lives since grammar school. People just have an inherent bias towards trans folks and it’s incredibly depressing and sad.

        • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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          10 hours ago

          I genuinely think no other person on this planet could hold this opinion.

          Eh, I’m pretty close to this opinion.

          A family member came out as non-binary, and I don’t like to use they/them (for the same reason as Stallman), but I also think creating my own pronouns is more offensive, so I just use their first name, unless I can’t easily avoid it (like this sentence). I’m not trying to be offensive, I just don’t like they/them as angular pronouns. I also don’t like “you” as both singular and plural, but I’m also not ready to use “y’all”, so I refer to second person groups without the pronoun (if feasible).

          On a related note, I also think gender is a social construct and not actually “real.” Sex exists because it’s a biological thing, but it shouldn’t be directly tied to your role in society. To change my mind, I need empirical evidence that there’s some unique difference between men and women (brain wave patterns?) that aligns groups of non-binary people or aligns trans people with people of the opposite sex. I personally don’t think this exists, and gender fluidity is more a symptom of a culture that isn’t well equipped to handle people who don’t nicely fit into a bucket. I think gender is a useful metaphor for what’s going on, and I absolutely support people fighting for using it to get the recognition they need, but I don’t think it’s an actual, scientifically proven thing.

          The only real difference is that I use first names to refer to non-binary people’s first names more frequently than to binary people. I hope that doesn’t offend anyone, I just really don’t like using the same pronoun for both singular and plural.

          • UnpledgedCatnapTipper@piefed.blahaj.zone
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            4 hours ago

            Singular they is over 600 years old by the way: https://www.oed.com/discover/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/?tl=true

            As a trans person, my gender dysphoria is not something caused entirely by social gender roles. Medical transition has greatly alleviated the majority of it. Anecdotally, within the first week of hormone therapy, my dysphoria improved dramatically while only being out of the closet to 2 people outside of my therapist and the medical professionals who prescribed my hormones. It has continued to improve, although I’m still waiting for the surgery that will resolve the remaining things that hormones can’t fix.

            Also, there are studies around brain structure differences between men and women, and transgender people tended to have brain structures in line with their gender, not their assigned sex at birth: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_gender_incongruence#Brain_structure

            Perhaps you should believe people when they tell you who they are, and get past your discomfort drawing arbitrary lines in grammar regarding pronouns, when singular they predates the fall of the Byzantine Empire by 75 years.

            • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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              1 hour ago

              Singular they is over 600 years old by the way

              Sure, and “you” used to be exclusively plural. Language changes, and now you is exclusively singular in some parts of the world (e.g. the US “South” where “y’all” is the plural).

              I want separate singular and plural pronouns. Some languages do this properly and don’t even have gendered pronouns, such as Tagalog:

              • he/she/singular they - siya(possessive = niya)
              • plural he/she/they - sila (possessive = nila)
              • singular you - iyo (possessive = niyo)
              • plural you - inyo (possessive = ninyo)

              there are studies around brain structure differences between men and wome

              Sure, but sample sizes are small and many times they don’t seem to control for hormone therapy.

              That said, this one looks interesting:

              A 2009 MRI study by Luders et al. found that among 24 trans women not treated with hormone therapy, regional gray matter concentrations were more similar to those of cisgender men than of cisgender women, but there was a significantly greater volume of gray matter in the right putamen compared to cisgender men. Like earlier studies, researchers concluded that transgender identity was associated with a distinct cerebral pattern.

              And this one:

              Rametti et al. (2011) studied 18 trans men who had not undergone hormone therapy using diffusion tensor imaging (DTI), an MRI technique which allows visualizing white matter, the structure of which is sexually dimorphic. Rametti et al. discovered that the trans men’s white matter, compared to 19 cisgender gynephilic females, showed higher fractional anisotropy values in posterior part of the right SLF, the forceps minor and corticospinal tract". Compared to 24 cisgender males, they showed only lower FA values in the corticospinal tract. The white matter patterns in trans men were found to be shifted in the direction of cis men.

              And this review of other studies:

              A 2021 review of brain studies published in the Archives of Sexual Behavior found that “although the majority of neuroanatomical, neurophysiological, and neurometabolic features” in transgender people “resemble those of their natal sex rather than those of their experienced gender”, for trans women they found feminine and demasculinized traits, and vice versa for trans men.

              This suggests there may be developmental differences between trans and cis individuals, and there seems to be a correlation between trans people and the sex associated with the gender they identify as.

              The body of available science certainly indicates more researchis needed and could lead to answers that show exactly what differences exist between cis and trans people. I sincerely hope that happens. But as it stands,the research isn’t conclusive.

              Perhaps you should believe people when they tell you who they are

              Let’s be extremely clear here, my support for policy will not be impacted whatsoever by the scientific research, regardless of the outcome. If you feel like hormone therapy or gender reassignment surgery or whatever other treatments will help you, you should be able to get them. Full stop. If you want to be treated as a man or a woman, I’ll do that. If you want to be called by different pronouns, I’ll do my best to do it, I just don’t like pronouns that are both singular and plural because they can lead to confusion. That’s it.

              If there was a generally accepted gender-neutral set of pronouns (like in my example), I’d use them nearly exclusively. If the scientific evidence was clear cut, I’d admit as much. Neither is the case, so I’m left to find a happy medium that works for my and others in my life.

        • Kami@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          14 hours ago

          Ok, let’s say he’s right only when he talks about software.

          That should do it. I hope.

          EDIT: well and hardware too I guess.

          EDIT2: oh and paid public toilets.

      • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
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        14 hours ago

        Unless he’s championing paedophilia and bestiality, which he has done on a number of occasions. Or being an absolute creep with women, which he’s also done.

  • ook@discuss.tchncs.de
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    15 hours ago

    I am really glad to see these articles popping up now. Since the news broke a week back or so it was suspiciously quiet about this, despite lots of negative comments here.

  • damon@lemmy.world
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    15 hours ago

    Hopefully they go to court to get an injunction. Hopefully, they also go to the powers that be in the EU, those same powers have been so focused on the Apple App Store they failed to take into account Google can do something like this with the Play Store. It would be a shame for the F-Droid project to end but it is completely avoidable.

      • ripcord@lemmy.world
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        14 hours ago

        We can also do that.

        Complain without doing something is worse than doing something like the other person suggested, though.

        • primrosepathspeedrun@anarchist.nexus
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          11 hours ago

          Complaining tells yhe company this isn’t popular. Complaining while talking about alternatives is helping others towards doing something, and giving the idea that it will be a net negativeove for their hegemony,even if you don’t do shit.

    • unknownuserunknownlocation@kbin.earth
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      13 hours ago

      To be fair, up until recently, there was no clear indication that Google would do this. Google made it so that installing non-play store apps was slightly more difficult, Apple made it pretty much impossible. So Apple was a pretty logical target at that point (and honestly, up until then, they had pretty much gotten a free ride - think of the default browser issue in Windows, no one every bothered with Apple).