Apparently I’m now a shitlib for not buying into this disgusting tankie propaganda that it was all the Wests fault and Stalin had to ally with Hitler.
For a mod who loves to ban others for bad jacketing, they sure have no problem doing it to other anarchists.
The Ban:
The Context:
Just remember, whenever you read, “social democracy is objectively the moderate wing of fascism,” you are reading part of the justification for why the USSR should sign a treaty with Nazi Germany. The actual justifications for this are complicated, I think it is actually not completely straightforward such as “Nazis bad, treaty with Nazis make USSR fascist.” However that is exactly the sort of campist and obscurative reasoning that Stalin tries to make. The argument was not “the USSR is still critically underdeveloped next to the most industrially advanced country in Europe, and we need some time to industrialize before we can oppose European fascism.” It was, “The social democrats in Europe are worse than Nazis, so the Nazis need time to crush their moderate wing.”
You can kind of understand the Real Politic of Stalin. It’s the same justification for the endless purges of his political enemies. I think that the historical basis for authoritarianism extends beyond the “great man.” But the guy was probably the greatest historical revisionist of the last 150 years. Both his enemy Leon Trotsky and Trotsky’s one-time secretary Reya Dunayevskaya meticulously documented how Stalin had history literally rewritten to make him seem like a more revolutionary figure than he was.
I recognize that Trotsky doesn’t have a good rapport with anarchists, nor should he, after 1921. But If any leftist tradition “weighs like a nightmare on the minds of the living,” it is the legacy Stalinism.
Seems like a bad call to me too, PTB. I’ll reverse the ban.
I love how all tankie defense boils down to “dO yOuR OwN ReSeArCh”
Where “your own research” means “Cowbee’s research.”
Def the funniest part of the post
agree blindly with our threadbare propaganda or you’re a sheep!!!
What is cowbee? Google isn’t helping
A blatherer whose every response seems to involve trying to get someone to read a book that i’m starting to suspect they wrote, or are actually a fourteen year old who read their first thing that Spoke to them.
Cowbee did not write Blackshirts and Reds. Lol
An infamous tankie on Lemmy
I did my own research and it disagrees with tankies’ conclusions. Now what?
Now you’re a banned shitlib!
Then you’ve been brainwashed with western propaganda is they’re their usual go to
And also they’re Russophobic, Sinophobic, a total shitlib, and most of all, banned for Rule 1 and 2 (having a dissenting opinion)
I was raised and educated by people who grew up in USSR. If it was a paradise like tankies claim, those people would know.
Yeah they really don’t seem to realise that this is a thing in living memory. As in there are people who walk among them who were actually alive when the USSR existed.
They are too exhausted by all their research to form proper arguments. 🙂↕️
They’re too used to banning dissent from their online spaces that they don’t have a clue how to actually make an argument that holds any water or without resorting to bad faith tactics. Their arguments never hold up to scrutiny.
Damn that sounds a lot like MAGA
Tankies and MAGA have more similarities than differences. The only real distinction is which authoritarians they worship.
Tankies need their safe space for same reasons as Nazis.
Wish it was only tankies. But with them, there’s the additional implication that all aspects of Soviet history should be public knowledge, and if you do not know these things that alone makes you a … reactionary? capitalist bootlicker? Something like that.
My experience with these people is that they are extremely selectively informed about Soviet history. So ironically, they are actually quite ignorant on the topic, but they expect only their very specific cherry-picked facts and interpretations to be well understood by everyone, but none of the context or intervening events that might paint the USSR as anything other than the most benevolent organization in all of history.
That is very probably more true than what I wrote.
Sorry but this is PTB. Criticizing Stalin and the USSR doesn’t make one a liberal. Wtf.
Repeating the same tired attacks on Soviet history is definitely one of the first go tos in the liberal debate playbook on anti communism.
It does seems like tankie did the same with everything regarding US and the current russia invasion, so yeah, i can understand that.
Such as
Such as your favorite admin while saying “russia invade ukraine” and accompanying it with what NATO did, shifting the blame of the current conflict to US.
Just for context, won’t really engage further with this: I take 0 issue with people criticizing Stalin, the USSR etc. I’m not a Stalinist, ML nor MLM.
It was only for that specific insulting comment and claiming the USSR outright allied with fascist Germany. Literally every day that kept Germany from fully carrying out Generalplan Ost and Operation Barbarossa in general saved countless lives and allowed for proper industrialisation, later allowing a war effort at all.
I do not have any interest in engaging with people using that tone and straying from proper discussion (again, 0 problems with people trying to discuss things even if erroneous) and do not want them part of the com, it’s as shrimple as that.
I took no issue with OP of that specific thread.
You banned me for being a shitlib, not for being ‘insulting’.
Because it read like a shitlib take ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Edit: and shitlibs usually are insulting too
Is “shitlib” not insulting?
But not you. You’d never be insulting to anyone.
The fact that you would post this and think it seems like a reasonable thing to say is really something.
Just want you to know how fucking weird you look outside of whatever bubble thinks this behavior is normal. It’s actually funny how far a powerless person will take their small taste of power and just show every piece of their ass.
I love it, you are a motley fool with admin tools.
So it’s okay to ban someone arbitrarily because you deem it a “shitlib take”? Yikes.
not a tankie
cites cowbee
Pick one.
What’s wrong about having a wartime ally and then declaring war on them?
I do that all the time in Total War. It’s not a big problem if you have the armies to back up your chaotic strategies and if they complain, just wipe them out.
Calling this one a PTB, it’s not a shitlib thing to not ask the USSR to have not temporarily partnered with Nazi Germany.
PTB, Defending stalin for siding with nazis is crazy
Defending Stalin, period. Is crazy. He arguably killed more people than Hitler…
true, idk why ur getting downvoted
Because tankies don’t like it.
There is infinetly more nuance
no there isn’t. they worked with the nazis. it doesn’t matter why they did it, they still did it. if the choice is working with the nazis or death, then the only choice is death. go out fighting and give them hell.
PTB.
Ah ha, but you forget that Stalin was busy murdering the last of the military officers that won the Revolution.
Fact but IBM is still around tho…
German elite is made up in large part of Nazi nepo babies
There is no justice in the world.
PTB and on the basis of blatant misinfo as well. Disappointing
what does ptb mean?
Power tripping bastard — check sidebar
thank you, i will check out the sidebar
The sidebar lists the most common acronyms of this community.
thank you, i will check out the sidebar
Linking to anything Cowbee said as “fact” is insane.
The only taint on USSR reputation is oppression of LGBTQ according to cowbee.
Haha that name rang a bell that was one of the first people I ever blocked on Lemmy :)
I’m banned from there for publicly calling out one of the mods for covertly supporting the American right-wing. I deserve the ban, let’s be clear, I intentionally went out of my way to spam warnings across the community. That said, the moderation of that comm seems to be getting worse since I was last there.
PTB.
Edit: To be clear, this was the same moderator, who seems to be the head moderator, and in light of this, it now seems clear that they weren’t just supporting the American right-wing, but moreso supporting any and all totalitarianism.
Before 1941 everyone collaborated, appeased, or worked with the Nazis in some form. And then 1941 happened and the Holocaust.
Rather than this being a lesson for future generations of why Nazis cannot be collaborated, appeased, or worked with: it seems as though this is some ace up the sleeve for catching modern debatelords for apparently being inconsistent.
Generally I think if you’re using terms like ‘shitlib’ you’re losing ground, and of there’s someone saying ‘tankie’ there is unlikely any common ground to be found. Accurate or no, the first one to use either term is usually in the wrong, imo.
Before 1941? I assume you mean before 1939?
I don’t think there’s any equivalence in saying “if you invade Poland we are going to declare war on you” and then doing so (as France and Britain did) and literally teaming up with Hitler to invade Poland (as the Soviet Union did).
Appeasement was a weak strategy but the idea was less that war needed to be avoided at all costs and more that war with Hitler was inevitable but western Europe needed to buy a few months to try to catch up in rearmament. They were just a few months away from fighting the battle of Britain with biplanes.
1941 was when Germany invaded the USSR (and Japan attacked the USA), which I was marking as the last point in which any major/global power remained diplomatic, even neutral, with the Nazis.
Wild timeline take dude.
PTB!
PTB. Would be nice to have the ability to vote ban them.
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