They are “doing” the least they can get away with, that’s what I’m talking about. They resort to this stance because of the terrible state of their party and government, not despite it. They campaigned on abolishing the ley mordaza and they haven’t done shit after years. I guess the rank and file social democrats don’t want that… And I guess their rank and file don’t care about unionists being imprisoned or poor people being evicted without Amy housing alternative, or just fascists roaming willy-nilly. Finally, the current government may project this sense of standing with Gaza/international law in their foreign policy, but at home people are still being punished for so much as declaring solidarity with Palestine.
Their corruption cases are just the latest event, but let’s remember that they had their controversies over the years, which most likely pushed them into this stance. It doesn’t matter what person is to blame, what responsibility any given person has in the cases, it simply reflects very badly on the party, which is exploited by the opposition of course.
I have to remind you that all tangible actions have been achieved by grassroots organising: BDS initiatives, university encampments, trade unions (not UGT/CCOO of course), etc. They made universities divest and dissociate from Israel, they made Maersk back off from some shipments, they prevented ships sailing to Israel and it was they that made the government cave in and have to take any kind of pro-Palestinian stance. If we go back to October 7, we see that the PSOE govt has changed a lot in this regard, and, again, it’s because of people organising. I have to repeat myself here and say they’re lucky that they hadn’t even more ties to Israel prior to October 7.
Wow Pinguinu, you are in fire! I cannot disagree much here. I see you are not a PSOE fan (Main Political party in Spain)… and right to be so, they were the ones put Spain in NATO to begin with. But very disappointed with all, and I mean all small coalition parties too. Anyone party you would root for in Spain/Europe?
Now, given ALL Spain’s neighbors, from north to south, from East to West… sorry, but Spain stands out on Gaza’s cause by a lot! Should Spain do more, absolutely! Even at the risk of loosing the governorship because in somethings, an genocide is one of them, one should not do compromises. Yet, I understand some many think is better to endure with half-measured policies than to do the right thing and perish in the attempt.
Sorry, I did not understand the “they’re lucky that they hadn’t even more ties to Israel prior to October 7”. What do you mean?
There’s no electoral party I could recommend, sorry. Apart from that, different organisations work in different parts of the country, so there’s not one org I could recommend or have experience with specifically. I’ll just recommend you not to join the PCE (even its youth wing got up and left lmao). If you want to support Palestine specifically you may be near a BDS branch (BDS País Valencià/Madrid/Catalunya/etc) or Palestinian org (Al-Yudur, Samidoun…) or a student org like a student union, they’re usually ok I think. Otherwise make sure they’re not liberal Zionists that have this “centrist” take where they condemn everyone.
You’re right that Spain has some of the best foreign policies in the EU, however, that is not saying much. I’d also wager that it has the strongest social democracy in the EU, but it’s crumbling just as in the rest of Europe. I fear we’ll see things like the UK’s DWP debacle soon enough, only it’s not that cold here compared to the UK, so people are more “safe”.
Even if they’re very mediocre, I think it’s the best government we’re gonna get, because we’ve been going downhill since 2008 at least and we’re not suddenly going to get better health and education services, social security protections, etc. PSOE+Sumar have clearly not done anything in this regard considering that Spain is supposed to have grown economically and controlled inflation where the rest of Europe did worse. The fact that this is one of, if not the most, progressive governments in all EU, plus the NATO militarisation going on where I’m sure we’ll get conscription (or at least a huge push for people to join, kinda like in the US where they give poor people better health insurance and free education) by 2035, makes me very worried. I don’t believe we can escape from this from within the liberal democracy, the only thing left is collective action.
By that last thing I mean that if the govt had had more commerce with Israel prior to October 7, they would have been more unpopular and it would be harder for them to be able to have such a relatively strong stance. I mean they had this privilege where they didn’t have to ruffle many feathers to get to where they are now. Think about if Santander and BBVA had invested much more money into Israeli arms, the PSOE wouldn’t dare cut into their benefits and couldn’t give them free money without huge unpopularity (they’d have to cut spending elsewhere, they can’t print money like the US).
They are “doing” the least they can get away with, that’s what I’m talking about. They resort to this stance because of the terrible state of their party and government, not despite it. They campaigned on abolishing the ley mordaza and they haven’t done shit after years. I guess the rank and file social democrats don’t want that… And I guess their rank and file don’t care about unionists being imprisoned or poor people being evicted without Amy housing alternative, or just fascists roaming willy-nilly. Finally, the current government may project this sense of standing with Gaza/international law in their foreign policy, but at home people are still being punished for so much as declaring solidarity with Palestine.
Their corruption cases are just the latest event, but let’s remember that they had their controversies over the years, which most likely pushed them into this stance. It doesn’t matter what person is to blame, what responsibility any given person has in the cases, it simply reflects very badly on the party, which is exploited by the opposition of course.
I have to remind you that all tangible actions have been achieved by grassroots organising: BDS initiatives, university encampments, trade unions (not UGT/CCOO of course), etc. They made universities divest and dissociate from Israel, they made Maersk back off from some shipments, they prevented ships sailing to Israel and it was they that made the government cave in and have to take any kind of pro-Palestinian stance. If we go back to October 7, we see that the PSOE govt has changed a lot in this regard, and, again, it’s because of people organising. I have to repeat myself here and say they’re lucky that they hadn’t even more ties to Israel prior to October 7.
Wow Pinguinu, you are in fire! I cannot disagree much here. I see you are not a PSOE fan (Main Political party in Spain)… and right to be so, they were the ones put Spain in NATO to begin with. But very disappointed with all, and I mean all small coalition parties too. Anyone party you would root for in Spain/Europe?
Now, given ALL Spain’s neighbors, from north to south, from East to West… sorry, but Spain stands out on Gaza’s cause by a lot! Should Spain do more, absolutely! Even at the risk of loosing the governorship because in somethings, an genocide is one of them, one should not do compromises. Yet, I understand some many think is better to endure with half-measured policies than to do the right thing and perish in the attempt.
Sorry, I did not understand the “they’re lucky that they hadn’t even more ties to Israel prior to October 7”. What do you mean?
There’s no electoral party I could recommend, sorry. Apart from that, different organisations work in different parts of the country, so there’s not one org I could recommend or have experience with specifically. I’ll just recommend you not to join the PCE (even its youth wing got up and left lmao). If you want to support Palestine specifically you may be near a BDS branch (BDS País Valencià/Madrid/Catalunya/etc) or Palestinian org (Al-Yudur, Samidoun…) or a student org like a student union, they’re usually ok I think. Otherwise make sure they’re not liberal Zionists that have this “centrist” take where they condemn everyone.
You’re right that Spain has some of the best foreign policies in the EU, however, that is not saying much. I’d also wager that it has the strongest social democracy in the EU, but it’s crumbling just as in the rest of Europe. I fear we’ll see things like the UK’s DWP debacle soon enough, only it’s not that cold here compared to the UK, so people are more “safe”.
Even if they’re very mediocre, I think it’s the best government we’re gonna get, because we’ve been going downhill since 2008 at least and we’re not suddenly going to get better health and education services, social security protections, etc. PSOE+Sumar have clearly not done anything in this regard considering that Spain is supposed to have grown economically and controlled inflation where the rest of Europe did worse. The fact that this is one of, if not the most, progressive governments in all EU, plus the NATO militarisation going on where I’m sure we’ll get conscription (or at least a huge push for people to join, kinda like in the US where they give poor people better health insurance and free education) by 2035, makes me very worried. I don’t believe we can escape from this from within the liberal democracy, the only thing left is collective action.
By that last thing I mean that if the govt had had more commerce with Israel prior to October 7, they would have been more unpopular and it would be harder for them to be able to have such a relatively strong stance. I mean they had this privilege where they didn’t have to ruffle many feathers to get to where they are now. Think about if Santander and BBVA had invested much more money into Israeli arms, the PSOE wouldn’t dare cut into their benefits and couldn’t give them free money without huge unpopularity (they’d have to cut spending elsewhere, they can’t print money like the US).
Thanks, lots of material to process here!