Never ask a nato supporter who Adolf heusinger was.
With all that is happening in the world, someone decides to spend time to make a meme about NATO being a bad guy?
Given that NATO is actively supporting the worst thing going on the world (as usual), yes?
Well yeah, considering they are the bad guy, NATO is nothing but an organization for the furtherance of US empire led expansionism
And what happens if we don’t stop it soon? They will attack… Russia or something?
They’ll continue to kill by the hundreds of thousands in the middle east.
Never ask an EU supporter about why their own country doesn’t get to decide things for its self
Zing! 😆
What do you not like about the EU and do you think Germany should leave the EU?
What do you not like about the EU
centralizing control is bad. It gives less freedom and autonomy to the common man.
A citizen of a country in the EU votes for their parliment or congress or whatever to decide things, but then the EU parliment can just override whatever your elected officals decide. Doesn’t that piss you off? Imagine an entire continent being an HOA neighborhood. Where the HOA gets to dictate everything you do with your own house that they don’t own, don’t pay bills for and don’t maintain for you… and that’s a metaphor for the EU
I wouldn’t just get rid of the EU if I had my way, I’d de-centralize as much authority as possible down to every town being a self governing local community.
But with a constituion of rights that are always off the table for any debate.
Full bodily autonomy, free speech, gun ownership, right to privacy, right to remain silent, right to a fair trial with legal representation…competent legal represenation that won’t pressure you into admitting anything…basically a set of rights that allow you to do what you want with your own things and your own land
If you have a problem with gun ownership. You won’t once you’ve had to deal with someone invading your home. What? you think calling the police is going to stop a home invader from hurting you?
“hey I just called the police!”
“oh shit! you got me! Guess I’ll just sit here and wait to be arrested”
I can understand why local governing is nice. You always feel more involved and represented when you actually know the people in your government. But the European Parliament is elected as well. I would personally support making it more important and taking some authority away from the commission and council. But other than that, I am actually relatively happy with the EU.
It brought many great things with it, especially free trade and free travel. If you are a citizen of any EU country and move to another EU country, you have almost the same rights as a full citizen of that country. I just love that. Crossing a border between EU countries is like crossing a state border. This makes the lives of so many people so much easier. The same applies for the many streamlined regulations.
In addition, I mostly also like the rulings of the EU. I lt often stops harmful laws from passing (especially things like censorship). Sadly, some countries just ignore EU law without much consequences, which has to be stopped in my opinion.
In some way, I think the EU actually gives some more power to the people. If you imagine Austria passing a low, the world may ignore that. But if the EU passes a law, it is important and the US or China must pay attention.
And I don’t really know what you are talking about gun control here. I would never support wide spread gun ownership, since I personally really hate terrorism and enjoy the low gun violence rates. It obviously happens, but much less than in the US.
Nope.
Those questions are not tough for them at all. The propaganda has it covered and they will give some version of “we tried our gosh darned best to bring the savages freedom and democracy but their barbarian culture was simply too primitive”.
Its pretty hard at this conjunction in time, they used to be able to get away justifying these interventions with the “stopping genocide” card, but they can’t say that now that they’re enabling Israel. The facade of virtuousness has fallen.
That list of nations is very short.
Is certainly longer than Russia list, but they’re the baddies right?
NATO wasn’t involved in Iraq were they?
Bush desperately tried to tie saddam to al-qaeda so he could trigger article 5 by claiming 9/11 was an act of aggression. That didn’t pan out but the empires most loyal dogs still went with the us on their massmurder campaign. See the “coalition of the willing”
You forgot Poland. — GWB
Fair enough, nobody in Poland seem to even remember this happened.
Not NATO, countries that just so happened to be members of NATO for completely unrelated reasons don’t even worry about it.
Nope. Because Iraq isn’t on the North Atlantic. Did OP ever look at a map?
What do you think OP meant when he listed all those countries not in nato?
Ah, Yugoslavia. How dare anyone disturb that genocide.
Bombs were falling on civilian targets nowhere near Kosovo. Various bridges, schools, hospitals, a chemical plant in Pančevo that almost destroyed the entire city, the Chinese embassy, a bomb fragment fell literally in my family’s garden. Hundreds of civilians died, my grandma almost impaled on a table from a bomb shockwave and the glass shattered onto the cradle I was in (I was 1 year old at the time), but luckily my mom placed protection around me just in case. This was on the far north of Serbia.
To be clear, OP is a tankie who shouldn’t be given any attention or a platform (I checkes their post history), but the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia in 1999 was a campaign that caused untold suffering to countless civilians (be it in injuries, deaths, or just going through every day not knowing whether you and your loved ones will be alive tomorrow) that had absolutely nothing to do with Kosovo, something that left scars in society that are still felt. It was not simply “disturbing a genocide”. Not to mention that it was an attack launched without the approval of the UN.
Of all the things, you decided to defend that scumbag. He and his cronies were one of the primary agitators that caused the war. Even if he himself didn’t order a genocide, he actively militarily supported the Bosnian Serbs that caused one. And say what you want but the bombing did stop the active ethnic cleansing happening in Kosovo.
Fix your link
AFAICT, there’s nothing wrong with them.
Neither one of the two links seem to support your two claims. I gave you the benefit of the doubt by assuming you pasted the wrong link(s). shrug.
There was intense conflict along ethnic lines on both sides. NATO didn’t intervene to “stop a genocide,” it bombed hundreds of state-owned factories and murdered over 2000 civilians (including 300 Albanians, which NATO claimed to be “protecting”). The real drive was to destroy a nation that dared to be a part of the Non-Aligned Movement, and make them subservient to western interests, opened up for foreign plundering.
The ethnic violence was horrible, but NATO didn’t really fix it, it took advantage of it as a reason to get involved and achieve the aims of western powers economically.
Why doesn’t NATO disturb the current genocide in Gaza?
So your issue isn’t them stopping a genocide but not stopping more genocides?
He is pointing out the obvious contradiction on NATOs justification on their war crimes.
If they were worried about s genocide in yugoslavia and forced to intervene, why aren’t they doing the same with israel? Have you asked yourself this question?
Yeah, who do they think they are? NATO?
Gotta love 2025. Is this an alt-right post or an alt-left post? No one can tell. Horseshoe theory, etc etc.
Anyone with a working brain cell can tell bud.
The right is pro-NATO, as NATO is the main millitant arm propping up western imperialism, and the left is anti-NATO for the same reasons. There’s no “alt-left,” lol.
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In what way is it untrue? It’s a bit simplified, but I wouldn’t really consider many western right-wingers to be anti-NATO nor any leftists pro-NATO.
Trump is constantly talking about leaving NATO…? And the o haven’t really heard anything anti NATO from the left except the tankies.
Trump will never leave NATO, it’s a common pattern for him to threaten to leave things to get a more favorable deal, which largely fails to be fair. As far as being anti-NATO as a Leftist stance, it’s an extremely standard take to be against the main millitant arm of western imperialism. It isn’t just the Marxists that are against NATO.
Anyone against NATO is against Western imperialism and would be considered a “leftist” by Western standards (just humane and ethical for the rest of the world). I don’t see what can be misunderstood here.
Plenty of far-right people would be leftist then. Interesting
You’re just saying words now, lol.
Breaking News: Local Lemming Discovers Speech
should do an AMA on how long it took you
Yeah, true. I have observed that too in the last few years. If you see someone saying we should not support Ukraine there is a 50/50 chance they are far-left or far-right. Pretty impossible to tell in most cases.
I have never met anyone who supports NATO
🧢
What a blessed life 🥲
I can’t seem to find anyone in real life who doesn’t.
Me too comrade
So you have never met Eastern Europeans?
Or basically the entirety of the Western world? Lol.
I actually did, but people don’t normally have conversations about why NATO is a good/bad idea on first encounter 😆
So you also haven’t met anyone disapproving of NATO?
I support NATO, in the sense that if NATO dissolved Europe would get eaten like a three-course meal by Russia. Ukraine shows that all too clearly. it has many problems, though.
There’s no evidence of this, though. Scaremongering about Russia taking Paris and whatnot has no economic backing. Russia has been clear about why it invaded Ukraine, it wants to demillitarize it as it was cozying up to NATO, and NATO has been encircling Russia for decades. If NATO didn’t exist, there would be no reason for the Russo-Ukrainian war to begin with, as Russia doesn’t stand to gain much, if anything, economically.
This thing that keeps happening to a lot of the countries around Russia that are not in NATO? Completely wouldn’t happen if no one was in NATO.
Sure.
If NATO didn’t exist, there would be no reason for the Russo-Ukrainian war to begin with, as Russia doesn’t stand to gain much, if anything, economically.
What reason do you think is behind the war?
I acknowledge the argument NATO is encircling Russia. To what extent does Ukraine differ from other actions by Russia such as Georgia in 2008? Which sorts of actions are not resistance to NATO encircling?
Ukraine is an interesting case, due to the Euromaidan coup in 2014 leading to the nationalists taking control. Prior to Euromaidan, relations with Russia weren’t so bad, actually.
yeah, they could have been like Belarus!
How many of their NATO neighbors have they attacked vs their non-NATO neighbors? There’s a reason countries want to join it lol
Why do you think Russia invaded Ukraine? Like, what is their primary goal. The impetus that drove them to approve the invasion.
Secondly, what do you think the functioning role of NATO is?
They wanted to prevent them from joining because they couldn’t bully them if they managed to join. I think that answers for both.
Now your turn to answer my original question, please.
So the underlying, material reason for why you think Russia invaded Ukraine, was because they wanted to “bully” Ukraine? And that NATO is just an international “anti-bullying” alliance? No, lmao.
NATO is an alliance of imperialist nations. They band together, agreeing to each exploit their own corner. The biggest players are the US Empire, as well as the former hegemons Germany, the UK, and France. The other NATO members play along so that they can ride along on this system of monopoly capitalism expropriating vast wealth from South America, Africa, Southeast Asia, and more. If countries go against NATO desires economically, they get bombed, like Yugoslavia, Libya, etc.
NATO promised Gorbachev that they wouldn’t expand eastward, decades ago. This is because originally, NATO was an anti-communist alliance. However, with the fall of the USSR, the west needed a new enemy, so they stuck with Russia even after Russia tried to join NATO. With NATO building up in Ukraine, following the Euromaidan coup of 2014 cementing the Ukrainian Nationalists as the leaders of Ukraine, and their relentless shelling of the donbass region, Russia invaded as it didn’t feel like it wanted a belligerent neighbor, and decided to take pre-emptive action.
The entire invasion never would have happened without NATO.
You’ve quite rudely ignored my question even though I promptly answered yours.
Why do you think Russia invaded Ukraine? Like, what is their primary goal. The impetus that drove them to approve the invasion.
Because they want to become a global power once again. That is their dream. They want to be imperialists themselves, but unfortunately for them, they have failed to do so. In the past decades they have poked their noses into Africa and the Middle East, with some success. But simultaneously they have lost their grip on regions they previously considered to be under their imperialist umbrella. It started with Georgia, which they solved with violence. Next it was Ukraine, and then Syria. And then all the unrest in Belarus. They got spooked that their imperialist dream was failing, so they went in to change the regime in Ukraine. But that didn’t work out as they planned. And to top that, they also lost their foothold in Syria completely. And now, just recently, they are losing Azerbaijan too.
Secondly, what do you think the functioning role of NATO is?
Honestly, it is to protect US geopolitical interests in Europe. Making Europe depend on the US for its defense. But it is not that bad of a deal for Europe, as it keeps the peace (in “western” Europe).
Russia was never “imperialist” in the way the west is. They never had an Empire as the Soviet Union. Russia cannot become an empire by invading other countries, imperialism functions by massive financial capital to extract from the global south. Russia doesn’t have the capital for that, and is more industrialized than western countries that need it to stay afloat.
As for NATO, it’s to ensure western imperialism stays intact. The US is the main beneficiary, but western Europe participates because they also profit from brutal exploitation of the global south.
They never had an Empire as the Soviet Union.
But they did. That’s why Mao called them social imperialists.
As for NATO, it’s to ensure western imperialism stays intact. The US is the main beneficiary, but western Europe participates because they also profit from brutal exploitation of the global south.
That just brings into question how NATO is a threat to Russia then? The only way that would be true is that either a) Russia sees them as imperialist competition, or b) the threat is that Russia can’t attack its neighbors without retribution.
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Dunno, I live in the US. Surely you can look it up, no? Nice 2 month old, 1 comment account, by the way.
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Nothing I said was wrong, nor does that make it “Russian propaganda.” The RF has been clear, they oppose NATO encirclement. Gorbachev was promised decades ago that NATO wouldn’t expand eastward, yet it has over the decades. NATO is used primarily as a threat towards countries that don’t let the west economically dominate them, be it the USSR to Iran to Libya to Yugoslavia to the modern Russian Federation.
Joining NATO is indeed voluntary, yes. Russia even tried to join it a couple decades ago, and was denied. Russia was barred entry from the imperialist alliance, as if they were allowed in, NATO could not be used as a threat against them to force them to open up their economy more. The ex-soviet now-NATO states faced immense economic crisis and right-wing takeover due to the chaos that ensued when socialism was ended and the USSR dissolved, making them very western-friendly.
No, I’m not a Trump supporter, I’m a communist. I strongly oppose western imperialism, and based on the evidence we have, there’s no proof that Russia intends on taking on all of Europe. This is just scaremongering to fuel the millitary industrial complex and justify the perpetuation of NATO even after the collapse of the USSR, which it was formed to fight.
Either Russia is too weak to take Ukraine and thus NATO isn’t even necessary, or it’s strong enough but uninterested in total war and is happy with its level of involvement. The former means NATO isn’t even needed as Russia would be too weak, the latter means NATO isn’t needed as Russia has no plans to expand, nor does it have any economic basis for it.
I think it’s very telling that you can’t actually dispute any of my points, you just call me Russian and a Trump supporter for stating the standard leftist line on NATO and the Russo-Ukrainian War.
I fully support Europe being destroyed
The continent?
