I really wish more PC handheld devices would come out with SteamOS instead of Windows. It’d make them a lot more appealing to me over the Steam Deck. The Windows experience on handhelds is a bloated and kludgy mess.
It can’t be done cause Steam hasn’t released it yet unfortunately
They haven’t released the installable ISO, but there’s no reason why hardware vendors and Valve couldn’t work together to build a Steam OS image for specific devices.
Presuming valve wants to do this of course.
Don’t see why they wouldn’t. Every SteamOS device sold is a huge win for them
Depends how they view their business evolving. Ask Apple if you can build a device that runs iOS. They have an App Store and make lots of money from it.
If they want to be in the hardware business, not just building proof of concept/proof of market devices, they very much may not want to share it with other manufacturing of competing devices.
Yeah that’s true, there’s also the maintenance burden to consider as well. It would be a pretty big departure for Valve though, Apple was always selling hardware but Valve wants to get their storefront in front of as many people as possible because that’s how they print money. They also want to get more folks gaming on Linux so I think the incentives right now line up pretty nicely for Valve to want other devices running their os.
We’ll have to wait and see. I personally would love to see more devices running SteamOS as well so I’m definitely biased!
They have everything to win and nothing to lose. SteamOS is purpose built to direct you to Steam, Valve only wins.
Depends how they view their business evolving. Ask Apple if you can build a device that runs iOS.
If they want to be in the hardware business and SteamOS is the best thing out there, they very much may not want to make it easy for other people to run.
They already stated they want to have SteamOS 3.0 available for everyone to download and install on any machine.
Soon or later their making steam only available on steamOS.
My main concern with companies like Lenovo or Asus building such devices on Windows is support. I have more trust in Valve to do this right.
Allegedly MSFT took notice and is working on it…. But there are some good 3P apps that make it usable to launch games. Installing them is still a chore without a Bluetooth keyboard.
The steam deck controls are honestly too important for me to consider anything else. The fact that I can play mouse and keyboard games with no issues is huge.
Every single one of the so called “Steam Deck Killers” drops the ball on the controls, it’s impressive.
Aya Neo Kun looks promising with its touchpads, but I am sure the Steam Deck still has it beat on price.
The controls are just so good. I don’t think I could do without the inputs especially the touchpads
For me, it’s being able to sleep and wake the device with games still running without worrying about a crash or running out of battery because Microsoft broke sleep on W11
Yeah that’s my thing, too. Touchpads are important in this regard I would say.
To be honest it goes beyond that. The steam input customization is major. Like the fact that I can take a mouse and keyboard action RPG and assign the left stick to move around just like it had controller support.
Why would you run Windows on this?
Maximum compatibility? Windows is the de-facto gaming OS, whether you personally like it or not.
It makes sense as a creator of such a device that if you have the knowledge in your team to do it, running Windows on it is a good proposition to buyers. It’s not like they couldn’t install Linux on it if they want to, but to off-the-shelf buyers Windows is much better sales pitch.
The user experience is atrocious though.
There are a few games I can’t play on my steam deck yet but I’d much rather have its great, functional ui over those few games that I could just play on pc instead.
Oh definitely. I would not say atrocious (seen far worse, like every time I have to interact with the weird stuff SAP or Oracle put out as software), but it’s not good for a semi-controller-semi-touchscreen device.
Definitely usable OTOH.
Personally I would still go for a Steam Deck right now if I had to pick one, but more competition is good, and right now I’m personally not looking for a portable gaming PC anyways as my Switch has enough games I still need to play.
The off the shelf user experience is so much worse though, it doesn’t feel like a finished user ready product if you’re having to navigate windows UI on a tiny screen with a thumbstick mouse.
Not to mention that running windows ruins the ability to play low power games at low power draws. A game like Stardew on the steam deck draws 5-7w, while the ROG Ally pulls about 15-17w to run it with the same settings. Disabling everything you can through task manager can reduce that power usage difference by maybe half, but there’s still a lot of unnecessary power draw just from it running windows.
@echoplex21 Why the hell would anyone want a Windows PC gaming handheld - Steam Deck through Proton is the future. Sure, innovate on hardware but building something for windows systems is just paying license fees for shitty experiences. #brokenwindows #proton #steamdeck
Gamepass PC, VR, and quite a few anti-cheat systems (so online games) are still windows only.
I made the switch because those make up a very small percentage of my (PC) gaming but they are very much things that aren’t available with a linux based device.
Gamepass and anticheat I’ll give you, though the latter situation is improving greatly, but using a handheld for a PC VR headset seems… impractical. Not to mention a cluster fuck of a liability
The Oculus (so Facebook) Quest works pretty well. And the very strong rumor is that the Deckard is (effectively) an HMD with a cable going to a steam deck with a big phat battery. And people have been using WMRs and even indexes with laptops for years.
I don’t think it is a super common use case, but it is very much a concern for the overall “why linux and not windows?”
The Oculus (so Facebook) Quest works pretty well.
The Quest works because it is a standalone device. You don’t have to plug anything into the unit, you don’t have to have wires everywhere, and you don’t have a significant risk smashing the unit to the floor because you literally can’t see where the cables are, what they’re snagging on, etc.
Meanwhile, conventional VR setups get around this by the PC being heavier than a handheld, as well as possibly by being situated under the desks. Laptops are less risk still than a SD, because the former is still heavier than a Nintendo Switch and is made to be used on a desk, with rubber feet for grip, something the SD form factor doesn’t have
That and the conventional use case for the SD is fundamentally incompatible from a user experience perspective. It’s a mess of cables, and most VR software requires more physics space to operate than you would realistically have in a non-home environment.
Its almost like you actively ignored where I pointed out Deckard which is strongly beleived to be a “fanny pack” VR
So I’ll just repeat myself.
The latest Valve product we are all eager for any hot goss on is Deckard. Very poorly kept secret (almost like Valve are advertising and testing the waters) but it is believed to be an HMD similar to the Facebook Quest but with the compute components either in a box on the back or in more of a hip mounted (fanny pack) configuration, depending on the leak. The former being the safe bet but the latter building more towards a Steam ecosystem and, honestly, being a better design choice in general.
Because for VR? The only cable you really need is one (thunderbolt 3 or better) USB C cable. Power, data, and video all fit on that.
And laptops have basically been the foundation of “backpack VR” for years now.
But the idea behind all of this (okay, backpack vr was more about any way to be portable for a large play space) is that compute is hot and heavy. So if you are putting everything in the HMD, you are increasing weight and heat generation on people’s heads. Whereas offloading that to a backpack or even just the equivalent of a steam deck (which can easily handle quest level VR) with a big ass battery duct taped to it, greatly relieves neck strain AND allows for much bigger batteries without weight or heat worries.
Its almost like you actively ignored where I pointed out Deckard which is strongly beleived to be a “fanny pack” VR.
I did. Partially because it is a rumour and not an actual product yet but also because, quite crucially to the point, it won’t be a Steam Deck form factor PC. Because my entire point hinges around:
Steam Deck form factor + conventional VR setup with all the typical wires and stuff = considerable liability and just not fun.
My argument is not about the Linux OS but the form factor of the Steam Deck. A problem that wouldn’t be solved by slapping Windows on it.
VR requires Windows?
SteamVR has no issues with Linux. But in the PC space, there are basically three major ecosystems for VR that basically interface between the HMD and SteamVR
- Facebook: I have no idea but I would be pretty shocked if this was linux friendly
- Windows MR: Actively not Linux friendly, but there are hobbyist shims that work to varying degrees
- Vive: No issues
So VR has no issues with Linux (because of SteamVR) but almost every single HMD does.
@null @echoplex21 for me personally I got the ROG Ally because of GamePass which I already had with my Xbox. Being able to play a bunch of PC games native has been great especially if they sync saves. Also the sheer amount of free games I got with Epic Game Store was also nice. Sure the UI isn’t the best (we really need a big picture mode for the Xbox app) but being able to play all these games without additional purchases was a no brainer.
Personally I just got a big SD card for my steam deck and now I can duel boot super easily between windows and SteamOS. Probably the best idea I’ve ever had.
duel boot
I’m imagining two cowboy boots at sunrise
There’s not enough room in this drive for 2 partitions, partner…
It’s an adversarial boot process where only one installation remains.
The Steam experience is actually pretty great on the Ally. They have the big picture mode which works really great.
Can you play Gamepass games without Windows?
Only through cloud which leaves a lot to be desired.
Yeah if cloud was a real option just a phone would suffice.
The real question is “can you make playing gamepass games on Windows handhelds a not-shitty experience?”
Completely different topic, but if you put a hashtag on a Lemmy post or comment does it appear on Mastodon?
Gonna test it out, #testingthefuckoutofthis
I think that only works if the post comes from Mastodon
You mean if it is crossposted from Mastodon?
deleted by creator
If it’s posted from Mastodon. Mastodon users can navigate Lemmy posts.
@thepineapplejumped doesn’t seem to render as a clickable hashtag on my (mastodon using Tusky) end. Seems like a bug imo.
Same here, not sure if this is down to lemmy.world not federating with Mastodon instances or just if it isn’t supported
I have an Aya Neo, and honestly running Windows on it (after doing a reinstall without all the bloat), is pretty enjoyable. I get to run all my PC games no problem, emulators, and use it as a portable computer for other things (managing flipper zero files, that sort of thing)
Steam Deck os is pretty nifty too though, that’s for sure.
The notion that “Steam Deck through Proton is the future” just showcases that you wouldn’t be in a position to judge how to configure such a device in the planning phases of a multi-million company project.
It’s a nice enthusiast attitude, sure. And don’t get me wrong, us enthusiasts are important. But it’s also entirely delusional to think that you can have true mass-market appeal of these handhelds without them running Windows on them.
Why buy a console when you can play the same games but at worse graphics for 45 minutes on a windows PC handheld?
I actually had a clamshell GPDWin2 that I used to play out of park baseball on in bed and it was perfect for that but I can’t image wanting it for real games. Inhome streaming is not worse than that unless you’ve cheaped out on your Wi-Fi and don’t wire in your main Pc/console.
It’s cool to see the handheld PC market taking off, but MS needs to offer a purpose-built version of Windows for these devices. Without something more console-like that compete with DeckOS these devices are doomed to have a disjointed and janky experience.
I actually hope that Microsoft doesn’t do that. Because I like that stuff like the SteamDeck improves the Linux-based Ecosystem.
If everyone now builds and buys Windows Handheld devices, it probably goes the same route as mobile phones, where a standard Linux or custom ROMs are second class citizen (if you are even allowed and able to use those) and you have to disable or downgrade security mechanisms if you want to install your own operating system.
I would really like if those hardware vendors would come together and improve the Linux gaming experience for their devices.
Nah, it’s greatly improving game compatibility on Linux.
I love my steam deck. I’m okay with not being able to play some games on it yet if it means my gaming experience on pc keeps improving too because of it.
Game companies will also be incentivised to add native Linux support if the handheld pc market gets big enough and it’s clear the experience is better on a custom Linux distro than something from ms
I worry that they might all just stick with Windows. ASUS also decided to go straight for Windows too.
You can configure Windows not to run the Explorer.exe shell and instead boot directly to Steam in Big Picture mode.
Theoretically anyone could make and distribute an alternative shell designed for this use case, it doesn’t need to come from Microsoft.
Agreed, but I imagine there’s hesitancy at MS to try again.
MS tried their hand at purpose built mobile OS during the Palm Pilot era, then again during the Blackberry era.
Windows hasn’t historically ported to small devices with great success.
Edit: I think there’s also likely some awareness (and fear) that the unified mobile PC gaming platform race is nearing it’s end, and already has two strong contenders in Linux and Android.
Just stick with the Thinkpads, Lenovo. Or make a Linux handheld console
I have to say, after using SteamOS Windows on a handheld is a non-starter. Linux just performs so much better for gaming on the go.
I love seeing more competition in the PC handheld market. I personally have an ROG Ally and it’s been working great (I don’t have an SD card though).
I feel like at this point Microsoft needs to create a big picture mode setting for their Xbox app. I have GamePass so it’s been a struggle to navigate using handheld controls. Then I switch to Steam and it’s big picture mode is great to use and smooth. Shame Microsoft doesn’t have something similar on their own OS. Armory Crate isn’t bad but doesn’t hold a candle to Steam either.
I love seeing more competition in the PC handheld market.
Yes! It’s so great to see this one play out in the exact opposite way from Steam Machines and VR. In all these cases, Valve made noise about how they wanted to kickstart a category with their own thing and then sorta leave it in third-party OEMs’ hands (less so with Machines, I suppose, since that one they just went straight to the OEMs). Fun watching the Deck take off like it did and sorta launch the entire form factor into the mainsteam.
I love seeing more competition in the PC handheld market
Yeah it’s pretty great to see, especially since in the beginning there were a lot of people saying handheld gaming PCs are very niche and the development won’t last long
Is there a story behind the name Legion? Seems like a strange choice for gaming hardware.
https://www.lenovo.com/de/de/legion/ - sorry for german link, but I am lazy. Their gaming-laptops are known as legion.
Yeah, I meant why their gaming line is called Legion. Is there some gaming related meaning to it. Just seems like a strange choice.
Sounds super gamery to have a “Legion” of gamers.
Are there any gamer brands that aren’t at least somewhat cringey soundy? Republic of Gamers is the biggest to come to mind. This is a laptop bought from best buy, not some nation state.
Are there any gamer brands that aren’t at least somewhat cringey soundy?
Steam? Their naming conventions are usually pretty to-the-point. Steam Link, Steam OS, Steam controller, Steam Deck.
Well Steam came from Valve (very clever…)
They’ve also been using those names since forever but importantly since a time before “gamers” existed. It’s kinda comparing the brandname Lenovo Legion to Microsoft Windows or Intel’s Pentium. They just come from an entirely different time when “gamers” were not really a specific self identified group. At some point in, early 2000s I recall, that changed and you started seeing the beginning and continuing into today of stuff like SUPER 1337 GAMING FUELED RGB LIGHTNING STRIKE PWNAGE that didn’t really exist before. It was just like nerds but traditional less frat-boyish nerds. Dudes in their 30s who could actually afford a pc in 1995 and a shitty dial up connection wearing thick-ass glasses and slightly balding. You know, the dude’s who went pushes glasses up “ah yes! Windows is a fine name!” (Seriously what a ridiculous name if you just think purely of the naming. Or Apple (haha Macintosh apples VERY CLEVER so many clever mfers in earlyish tech. Even the name Microsoft. Micro software. Software for microchips? Whatever the fuck. It’s boring and just totally different naming conventions from a different generation.)
You’re close, just a couple of years off.
It became increasingly more and more of a thing since Doom. That game brought a lot to the forefront, including 3D, PC gaming and online play.
The push on all three fronts started from there, and idsoft really rode the wave with the releases of Quake 1-3. Especially around the release of Quake 1 and the eSports competitions surrounding that game, there was a lot of what is now standard in conventional PC gaming culture.
GPU marketing was every bit as edgy as the games that hardware was made to run. You had 3dfx’s Voodoo, ATIs Rage, Nvidia RIVA TNT, the GeForce series, and that’s not even considering the artwork on these marketing boxes.
Yeah ROG and Ally are also kind of odd too. The console side of gaming seems to have much stronger branding.
xbox series x/s is the worst though
When the SteamDeck was first announced I was sure I was going to order one, but when I started reading about the dimensions I came the conclusion that I’d only use it at home, and if I’m home, I can jsut use my gaming PC. If I want to sit on the couch, I can just use Big Picture to my TV and use a controller. If I am on the go, portability is top priority and a pocketable retro handheld fits that use-case. I couldn’t imagine using a SD on a plane, what with how closely packed in the seats people are. I’d be elbowing the passengers next to me.
So when do you guys use the SD? Long train/bus commute?
I use it on my hour long train commute every morning and evening as well as in bed when I don’t want to sit at my desk.
The size is actually a huge plus for me. It fits my enormous hands so much better than the Switch which has been really uncomfortable since I started playing ToTK last week.
I work from home and after the shift to remote work it didn’t take long for me to pretty much stop using my gaming pc because at the end of a work day I kinda want to be out of my computer room.
Most of the time I’m using it on the couch or lounging around the house. I have brought it on planes (flown like 14 times so far this year) and it’s not that bad but I guess that may vary from person to person.
It’s not for everyone but it fits my needs pretty perfectly.
I understand where you’re coming from, but I have a different perspective.
It’s not much bigger than a Switch with a grip. I used it on my last flight to play Vampire Survivors and didn’t have any space issues.
I use my Deck and Switch in bed. I use them on the couch when someone else is watching TV. I use them on the toilet. I use them while at the gym. I use them in my car while I’m waiting for an appointment or something.
Basically, I sit in front of a computer all day for work. I don’t want to sit in front of a computer all night to game.
Yeah, they aren’t as portable as a Gameboy, but they’re good enough.
It’s been major for me with RVing. I guess I could have used a gaming laptop but given the limited “table” space in an RV the handheld formfactor is a major advantage. That plus the minimal power requirements - I don’t need to factor it in to our off-grid time at all, while a 200W gaming laptop would definitely be noticable.
I also just prefer it for home. Sitting on the couch, in bed, whatever. I find it comfortable to play on.
I put docks everywhere, in several rooms in my house, at my friends’ houses, at my parents’. It’s a lifesaver when I need to access work or do some programming, and I can play games when traveling as well, great for plane trips.
This… will be a gigantic failure.
Always good to have more. But currently happy with the gpd win 4 for a couple years until the next big leap
So many talking UIs are not intuitive on windows on these handhelds, but one can still install steam and use it in big picture mode to get a steam deck like UI.
Also, there are launchers like playnite with many themes.
market is small and already crowded, the idea of joining in now is the mark of an imbecile.
Interesting take. I actually think the PC handheld market is being opened up by the Steam Deck. I think companies are seeing its admittedly early success and want a piece of the pie. Time will tell how big the market grows.
Calling them imbeciles is quite a stretch, but I agree that this is a crowded market that is likely to remain pretty niche. I predict some vendors will end up pulling out within a couple of years.
Well, it’s Lenovo… whadayou expect?
market is small and already crowded
Fair.
the mark of an imbecile
Either there’s a language barrier, or this went off the rails pretty quickly. 😅
No thanks. We don’t need more closed and bloated spyware, what we need is more open and privacy respecing OSes like GNU/Linux and devices using it like Steam Deck.
