People wouldn’t care nearly as much if he said this while standing over a pond full of fish, but since they’re cute, fuzzy lambs, it’s Crossing The Line.
If you’re okay with eating meat, you should also be okay with how it gets to your plate. Seems only fair.
100% I think that meat eaters should have killed something they’ve eaten at least once. It’s a real living animal you’re consuming not a fucking “happy meal” (I mean, ask the cow, I’m sure it wasn’t happy)
I asked my hamburger but it didn’t respond.
cows don’t seem very communicative whether they’re in a pasture or a patty.
Then you’re not listening very well. You can understand a lot from a cow, both in the pasture and from the patty.
this outlandish claim came with no evidence, and will be dismissed with the same amount of evidence.
Ok. I will take your poor communication claim that has no evidence and dismiss it.
Grew up on a farm. Most of our meat, except pork, was home grown.
Named, raised, and loved what was on my plate. Helped butcher plenty of it myself. Fucking delicious
Well, not everyone is born with the same amount of empathy.
I’d watch a pile of puppies go through a particularly teeth-y farming combine while eating a sloppy Joe. I have no empathy for any living thing on this earth, humans included.
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Wow you’re so cool
I’ll happily go on a mass murder of animals if I can continue eating meat.
To be fair, fish brains are much further removed than other mammals.
Mammals have memories and can love. They have opinions and personalities.
The distinction that I would better is how up in arms some people get at the idea of eating dogs or cats but other mammals are perfectly fine.
Fish definitely have memories. They definitely learn who feeds them. Ask any observant aquarium owner.
Fish usually have opinions and personalities. Not sure about love, though.
It’s ok to eat fish cause they don’t have any feelings
I mean, yeah… Lambs are baby animals. Of course they are fluffy and cute.
Id feel pretty weird eating cute, baby animals, so I don’t. I do get why people don’t like this situation. It feels like people are being obtuse in this thread pretending to be flummoxed by all this.
Where do they think meat comes from?
Their mom buys it for them
From the store, duh!
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Yeah I mean it makes me sad (as a veg) but is this out of character or really “wrong” to a meat eater? Like, that animal is exactly what you find to be very tasty and have no problem eating. What’s wrong with this given that ethical framework? If anything, he’s just being earnest lol
e: phrasing
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Anyone who thinks that’s all they are is either horribly desensitized or hasn’t spent any real time around farm animals.
I know lots of farmers who think exactly that. Stop projecting your self-righteous sense of morality on others.
Unless you’re going to invoke some actual philosophy, your opinion is just as moot as anyone else’s.
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Not a bad take.
Gordon Ramsay absolutely is not sheltered. He has killed and harvested his own animals many times.
As for hunters not doing this, I think you don’t know many hunters. I’m a hunter, have many hunter friends, and talk hunting with people any chance I get. I’ve never met a hunter who wouldn’t be ok with this(or even do it themselves). Granted this is anecdotal evidence from both of us, but still.
Also, some people genuinely don’t care about the animals we raise specifically for food, that’s all they are to them (I fall into this group). I see their lives as ours, they exist solely to feed us. That doesn’t mean I think they should have shitty living conditions until their time comes, they should be able to enjoy what little life they have.
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I never said it was made up, just that neither of our evidence is based on much.
As for being cringey? Call it what you want, but those specific animals literally only exist because they’re delicious, and we want to eat them. It doesn’t matter if you don’t like it, it’s fact.
Animals are here for us to enjoy. The exact meaning of that is up to each individual on this earth.
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Tbh, you’re both kinda touchy.
Nothing left to contribute? Guess the conversation is over then.
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No, your anecdotal experiences are different, so they shouldn’t be used as a basis to influence or judge others.
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Was this anecdote included to justify the judgement?
Alternatively, every hunter and farmer I know who hasn’t become fully disassociated (the majority of them) respects the animals they eat too much to do something like this.
I’m not saying you’re wrong for judging others btw- just that in light of two equally anecdotal and contrasting experiences, the anecdotal evidence should not be included.
Oh no the poor animal is going to get its feelings hurt before getting slaughtered 😢
and also shows a disregard for where your food comes from
I don’t think you can acknowledge where your food is coming from anymore than this.
Strikes me as completely the opposite. He’s going to the source overseeing the whole process. And obviously it’s going to be prepared with the utmost care and turned into a world class dish. Compared to Joe Schmo torching a factory farmed steak, it seems a lot more respectful
So… if you’re not acknowledging where the meat comes from, that’s bad
But if you are acknowledging it, it’s bad as well?Many people who eat meat do that not while lying to themselves about where it comes from as many vegetarians/vegans assume. They just legitimately do not feel bad for the animals they eat. Just as so many of us don’t feel bad about the clothes they wear or the smartphone batteries they use.
The world is full of abuse, suffering and other such bullshit. You can’t feel bad about all of it, or you’d go insane because you can’t escape it. Besides, the brain just numbs itself at a certain pöint. So you need to allocate your compassion to a few of the sufferings you know of. Many go with animals for that. Many don’t.
So the question isn’t why the person eating meat is heartless, the question is what kind of pity the person not eating meat left out for it.
That’s how my mind processes the whole thing.
See this is one of the reasons I started hunting. I figured if I couldn’t morally deal with personally killing and preparing the creature, no more meat. It’s easy to eat meat when it’s a lump in plastic wrap on a store shelf versus when it’s like standing in front of you. (I leave the actual butchering to professionals though). Wasting food hits different when you saw it alive and you’re the one who unalived it.
It’s lemmy, you can say “killed it” here.
This is exactly the reason I want to get into hunting!
This goes well past “acknowledging it”.
You can acknowledge without celebrating.
When there is an expensive steak in front of you, do you just acknowledge it or do you celebrate it?
I’d never spend enough money on food to be in that situation but I’m pretty sure I’d just eat it.
That’s the kind of celebration all food deserves!
It’s not celebrating - it’s gloating in the massive power dynamic. It’s like an adult gleefully telling an infant they’re going to kill them
The sheep have no idea what he’s saying. It’s fine.
It’s fine but it’s weird
Gloating is a much better word for it.
I’m a meat-eater. The vegans are right - its more moral to not eat meat. Meat eaters getting outraged when people point out that meat is actually dead animals are hypocrites. Either accept that you’re in the wrong but doing it anyway (as I am) or change. Don’t complain when people point out your hypocrisy
It’s not the meat eating that’s immoral, it’s the industrialization of meat production that is - robbing an animal of all its freedom and all its chances to actually be alive. It kills evolution. It is anti-life.
What is happening on these industrialized meat farms is utterly disgusting and will become a crime once synthetic meat production is economically viable. It’s existentially wrong beyond any morals.
Absolutely can’t wait for lab grown meat to reach industrial scale.
Hunted meat is really ethical in the mean time, in my country that usually means pheasant (at the right time of year) or venison (which is unfortunately not cheap at all, I’d really like to see deer hunting for meat encouraged by the government).
I do eat farmed meat, but I definitely eat less of it than I used to.
Hunting is also beneficial to the health of game animal herds, and is a fundamental part of wildlife conservation.
So it can be ethical, healthy, and tasty to eat meat from killed animals.
Not true they hunt the wrong ones. In nature the sick and weak are eaten by predators. We shoot the healthiest ones. Bad idea.
Could you explain which part of eating meat is wrong? We have evolved to what we are today, thanks largely to our ancestors’ diets.
One pretty consistent moral among societies is that needlessly causing harm is considered wrong. Outside of lab grown, its impossible to acquire meat without grievously harming an animal. Further, the vast majority of our meat is NOT gained by hunting but instead by factory, and the conditions of meat factories are appalling and horrific. So yes, if we CAN get the nutrients we need without the consumption of meat, that is the most moral way to get our nutrition met. All that being said, even today, being able to meet all nutritional needs without any form of animal cruelty is an incredibly privileged position to be in, and we arent quite at the stage where its fair to judge others for not doing so
(edit: and I say this as a meat eater, meat is fuckin delicious and I dont want to give it up. I’m personally banking on lab grown meat becoming an economical option, at which point we have removed the ethical muddiness of it)
(Edit 2: Lmao, I ruffled the feathers of a lot of meat eaters who’ve likely never actually had to kill any if the animals they’ve eaten. I have, I still eat meat. Reality is messy, fucking own it)
Well hunting is a pain in the ass as it is. In an industrialized society we traded markets with shared goods to more specific specialties. Sure I can hunt for food because of licenses and availability but the trade off is most of the people have really good health care. At least objectively they have access to healthcare that can cure things that back in the 1500s would kill you within days.
My point is that at some point someone said “Hey I can take care of the meat portion if you take care of (insert many specialists careers).” There was no morality involved. Choosing to be vegan is fine. I think that it’s easier to get certain things from animal sources. So does nature.
One pretty consistent moral among societies is that needlessly causing harm is considered wrong.
besides your total lack of specificity about ethical systems or societies in which they exist, your use of “needlessly” is doing a lot of work there. on the one hand it sets up a no-true-scotsman where you can always claim no need is great enough, but it also gives anyone challenging this claim a loophole the size of a walmart to walk through: just claim it’s necessary.
i don’t think you really understand the claim you made. worse, if you do, that means you’re intentionally using vague language and intellectually dishonest tactics to persuade. this is called sophistry.
Im kinda done arguing with dumbasses in good faith about whether or not killing an animal is less ethical than not killing one. I’m a meat eater, I find meat delicious, and I ALSO recognise that most of the world isnt in a privileged enough position to NOT eat meat in order to fulfill their dietary needs. None of this takes away from the fact that killing is less ethical than not killiing
Im kinda done arguing with dumbasses in good faith about whether or not killing an animal is less ethical than not killing one.
Abso-fucking-lutely based. Sometimes it’s better to just call a dumbass, ‘a dumbass’ than engage with their bullshit sealioning.
bullshit sealioning
stealing this
Im kinda done arguing with dumbasses in good faith about whether or not killing an animal is less ethical than not killing one.
calling your interlocutors names is a great way to indicate you’re done arguing in good faith, but you just came out and said it. too bad you don’t seem capable of defending the claim you’re making.
Nah, it just means you idiots arent worth the headache
more name-calling, but no defense for your position.
One pretty consistent moral among societies is that needlessly causing harm is considered wrong.
The problem with this as your moral compass is that “needless” can mean whatever you want it to mean. It’s not actually a guideline to any specific behavior
Thats a semantics arguement to a generalized statement which is special kind of stupid. I gave a detailed response to further explain why this applies to meat eating and even ended with saying we havent reached a point in society where its fair to judge others for not abandoning eating meat. Just because society has always done things a certain way, doesnt make it right or moral, slavery was the NORM until around the last couple 100 years, and now its near universally considered atrocious. Meat eating from once living animals will likely be the next once norm, now evil, societal concept. But we arent there yet
I gave a detailed response to further explain why this applies to meat eating
Meat eating from once living animals will likely be the next once norm, now evil
The subjectivity of these takes is my entire point.
Damn near everything is subjective dumbass, its why theres so many societal problems that are still around even though they’ve plagued us for centuries
The entire purpose of a moral compass is to not be subjective. I didn’t make the claim that everyone should, or does, live by one set guideline. You did
Isn’t all morality subjective, rendering your comment moot?
Generally accepted morals certainly can be guidelines for behaviors.
So, quit eating. You must harm the plant to eat as well.
Plants dont experience life the same way we do dumbass. Do you think its ok to torture a pet cat as fun? Probably not, if so, you already recognize that harming an animal is less ethical than harming one. Really not that hard a concept to grasp. Eat meat, meats fucking delicious, but dont fucking delude yourself into thinking NOT killing an animal isnt less ethical than killing one.
Plants dont experience life the same way we do dumbass.
Source? Dumbass
Do you think its ok to torture a pet cat as fun? Probably not, if so, you already recognize that harming an animal is less ethical than harming one
wrong. torture can be wrong while incidental harm may be totally amoral. one has nothing to do with the other.
Counterpoint, something can be less moral than another thing WITHOUT being immoral. There are many MANY reasons to continue eating meat in this day and age, being just as moral as not, is NOT one of them
There are many MANY reasons to continue eating meat in this day and age, being just as moral as not, is NOT one of them
most ethical systems, in fact, do support that position: meat eating in and of itself is amoral to nearly every ethical system i can think of (and i know a lot)
i have a tendency to write very short comments, but i feel i’ve been misunderstood. let me try again:
you set up an claim that, if i’m reading it correctly, says “people believe torturing cats is wrong because they think harming an animal is less ethical than not harming an animal”
but that doesn’t necessarily follow. people may believe torturing cats is wrong, and that belief may have nothing to do with the other (that harming an animal is less ethical than not harming an animal). in fact, they can hold that belief without out believing the other at all.
problem is that only some well of westerners can reliably eat vegan and cover their nutrient intake, if you are worried about animal cruelty look into sustainable and ethical meet production
Edit: well off western vegans be mad
I agree, I addressed this in my response
And some civilisations practised human sacrifice. “We did it in the past” isn’t really an arguement.
Congratulations, you’ve completely missed the point. Apples and oranges.
Our bodies grew and developed thanks to the nutrients meat provided. What does that have to do with human sacrifices?
Our ancestors hunted wild animals
Industrialized meat production is horrible and wrong
That’s the part that is wrong
Let a pig have a happy life, then kill it. There is no need to force feed it in a coffin size pen for its whole life.
I didn’t ask what is wrong with the current industrial approach to farming animals, I asked what is wrong with eating meat.
Could you explain which part of eating meat is wrong?
You said which part.
That’s the part that is wrong
When you go to the store and purchase meat from an animal that was kept in inhumane conditions, you are supporting the system.
It’s only wrong if you believe hurting other living things is wrong, it depends on your upbringing / mental framework and how you relate those between different species.
But I believe most people agree that the current way we mass produce meat and how we treat these animals is like a dystopian endgame. If humans were treated like that by a higher intelligence that would be extremely disturbing and cruel. We just accept it as we place the priority on a steak on our plate.
It is how it is, everyone is ignorant or a hypocrite in some parts of life. Good or bad are only subjective perspectives. But if you look at the harm we cause to other beings with eating meat and in what mechanistic way, that might be one of the things in 100 years we look back at and just can’t fathom.
That’s an incredible weak argument. Our ancestors did all kinds of stuff which lead to societies prosperity. Doesn’t make all of it morally right.
Circle of life. If I were in the wild and defenseless and animal wouldn’t hesitate to kill me, as it should be. It’s not wrong, it’s nature. Morality isn’t the same from person to person.
Quite an assumption. There’s nothing natural in factory farming. Circle of death, that is.
it’s not supernatural
You are assuming now. I never said anything about factory farming, just that eating meat was natural. I agree the methods are detestable.
You appealed to nature and threw a desert island scenario when the OP is clearly about animals raised in captivity and to be slaughtered way before their natural end of life. Also, eating meat is natural for carnivores. Us omnivores can do well (even better) without animal products.
There was no desert island scenario. There was a comparison to eating and being eaten, which is natural in both senses. As omnivores we developed to eat both meats and plants just like all other omnivores on the planet. To deny one part of our natural diet is unhealthy. You seem to have some kind of agenda which I will not be a part of.
You are entitled to your opinions and I will respect that but I will no longer communicate with you on the subject. Have a good week.
And good day to you, sir, too.
I agree with the people here calling out the cruelty of the industrialized meat industry, but eating meat in and of itself is not inherently wrong. The universe seems to consume itself by design—there is a reason Ouroboros (the serpent eating its own tail) is an ancient symbol for eternity. We are in an interlocked system that recycles matter and energy to sustain life.
Moderation in all things. Don’t take more than you need, but don’t deny yourself either. If I had my druthers, I would much rather be eaten by a cool animal after I die than sit in a box embalmed. Live a good life, and at least the animals you eat will be part of that positive contribution too.
I can completely agree the means to get to the end is indeed very cruel. We are all animals and I would not like to be treated so inhumanely just to die. However, eating meat is as natural as breathing.
I agree that I would rather my body go back into the circle than decay in the ground.
its more moral to not eat meat.
under what ethical system?
Under literally any ethical system you choose.
Forget harm to the animal for a moment.
Breeding animals to slaughter is more water, land and time intensive than growing crops, and produces substantially fewer calories for even more land area. Breeding animals to slaughter also generates far more CO2 then crops, either from the animal directly or from transport and butchering processes.
Under literally any ethical system you choose.
deontological ethicists aren’t concerned with the consequences, only the action itself.
Under literally any ethical system you choose.
i don’t know of any divine command theory that says anything like that
If it’s pure calories you’re after, might I suggest Uranium? It’s pretty cheap considering what you can theoretically get out of it.
^/s
I don’t think that you Uranium contains any calories.
A calorie is the amount of heat needed to raise the temperature one kg of water by 1°C, so uranium has quite a few, hard to digest though.
Edit: I was curious so I looked it up, 1 gram of uranium has 20 billion calories
Microdosing time!
I don’t think you understand what calories are.
Food calories and scientific measurement calories are different. It’s literally in the first paragraph of the article.
The small calorie or gram calorie was defined as the amount of heat needed to cause the same increase in one gram of water.
My comment specifically says “pure calories”.
What does
/smean? Does it mean back by science? Does it mean I should do this?? Please answer quickly, I have a piece of uranium here and I’m dying to eat itYes, science has confirmed that Uranium is perfectly edible and that it’ll provide you enough energy for the rest of your life.
Wow!! Thanks
making food is a good use of land.
letting a cow graze a field and killing it next year takes way less time than tilling and planting and fertilizing and watering and harvesting.
Did you miss ‘/s’ or do you genuinely believe that?
Cause if it’s the latter, you should go to your school and ask for a refund.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t most pastures also planted, fertilized, and watered? You’re also assuming infinite land here - I don’t know shit about farming, but the first google hit I got suggests that cows need about 1.8 acres of pasture per year.
1 cow, consuming 1.8 acres of land, produces on the scale of 0.5 to 1.4 million calories, according to this estimate
However farming produces up to 18 million calories per acre, so if you were growing potatoes you’d have 32 million calories. On the same land that produced up to 1.4 million calories via grazing cow.
You’re also assuming infinite land here
no, i’m not. i was comparing the work done to plant a field of potatoes against raising an equivalent amount of cattle. i’m making no sweeping policy proposals.
Great, in a vacuum, and assuming efficiency of land does not matter, you are correct in saying it takes less work to produce less calories.
not just in a vaccuum but literally any time you have the option to plant a field or put a cow in it, it will always be less work to put a cow in it.
most of the crops fed to animals are parts of plants people can’t or won’t eat.
Not relevant. The field that is used to grow food stock for animals could have been used to grow food stock for humans. Potatoes have a high calorie count and are not particularly difficult to grow.
You’ll get far more calories out of the field of potatoes than a field of cows, unless you’re packing them in at the same density as the potato plants which I’m assuming you’re not.
You’ll get far more calories out of the field of potatoes than a field of cows,
if the land is unsuitable for crop production, you can often still raise cattle on it.
You still need to grow food to feed the cattle, if only for winter stock, so you have to find a fertile field to grow food stock, so that field could be used for growing crops and the field that’s unsuitable for anything else could just be, well not used. There’s absolutely no scenario where cattle are going to be more sustainable than crops.
you can feed cattle silage and crop seconds from food grown for people. you don’t need to plant crops just to feed cattle.
There’s absolutely no scenario where cattle are going to be more sustainable than crops.
wrong.
the field that’s unsuitable for anything else could just be, well not used
why, though? making food is a good use of land.
The field that is used to grow food stock for animals could have been used to grow food stock for humans.
often, it is. as i said, most of the crops fed to animals are parts of plants people can’t or won’t eat.
Much more land can be used for growing animals than for growing crops. And without animals there would be no dung so the only way to let crops grow would be chemical fertilizer (which is made of oil).
You’re talking about a different issue which is food shortages.
There is absolutely no shortage of arable land on earth, the problem is it isn’t evenly distributed but that’s an easy enough problem to solve if we actually wanted to solve it. The solution isn’t cattle.
It’s obviously not the solution because if it was the solution there wouldn’t be world hunger, you can’t feed millions of people on cow.
There’s no morality in food. What the actual fuck is wrong with the world?
Cannibal time let’s go
Either accept that you’re in the wrong but doing it anyway (as I am) or change
Lmao “you don’t get to actually disagree and the only options are you being wrong.”
Nah. Animals are lesser than people, and it’s fine to eat them
So u would be completely fine if I killed and ate puppies and kittens, right?
No. I also wouldn’t be fine if you ate other stuff that I have for purposes other than eating, like a chocolate sculpture.Edit: Misread. My answer is yes.
Who said I would eat YOUR stuff? What if I purchased a puppy from a breeder (hence, my property), raised it till it was three, slaughtered it one day, marinated its meat, stuffed its ass with some of those noice spices, chucked it in the oven and served it to my kids for Thanksgiving? Would that be animal abuse?
Let’s go a step further. Let’s start a breeding farm for kittens.
“Meow”
“Shut the fuck up u furball! Now get into my fryer you! Gotta keep our Kentucky Fried Kittens profitable, don’t we?”
Would that be animal abuse? Would I be allowed to start my KFC alternative- KFK?
“KFK- Tasty, Cute, Meow meow”
Oh, sorry, I somehow misread your comment as “if I killed and ate your puppies and kittens”. I gotta read more careful next time.
Now get into my fryer you!
(That kinda sounds like you’d want to fry the animal without killing it before, which would obviously be animal abuse.)
If you don’t abuse the animal, it’s ok that you eat kittens and puppies.
That being said, I myself would still not want eat cat meat, because cats resemble humans too much, and because we interact with them a bit like they were human. For similar reasons I also wouldn’t want to eat ape meat, for example.
What sort of meat someone wants to eat can’t only be as rigid as either anything but human or anything but animal. One could for example decide not to eat any mammal meat, but still eat fish and bird. Or one could not want to eat the meat of any life-form, nor exploit any life-form for their needs (how gross of you to hold trees in masses and rip off their unborn offspring!), though living like that would be super difficult as of now. It just so happens to be that many people decide that lamb meat is ok for them to eat.
Sure? I don’t think they’d taste very good, but some cultures eat dogs. There’s definitely a hungry enough that I’d eat dog, and it’s way before shit like shoe leather
Alright, at least you’re morally consistent then.
Yea, animal are basically slaves. They feed us and keep the ecosystem going. They are property, not individual.
Slavery was bad because it was people treating people like animals, so no they’re not like slaves, slaves were like them.
Important distinction
Do you ever feel like modern society just wants to be outraged all of the time?
In the unlikely event humanity survives our many man made crises of this era, might this come to have been known as the Karen Age?
That’s because the threshold for writing “X causes outrage” in a headline is “one random nobody tweeted angrily about it”. For any given topic you can always find at least a single person who is angry about it. So this might just as well be known as the Shitty Clickbait Journalism Age.
Then again, people do love to go with the outrage train, even if it is something they don’t care that much about.
Outrage sells clicks and views better than anything except maybe disaster with a side of pretty young white girl.
They want to sell you outrage. So that’s what you see all the time.
Indeed. It’s less modern society and more three Twitter handles that are probably the same person retweeting themselves because you can find someone saying anything on Twitter to justify any made up faux outrage headline.
Meanwhile the ‘smart’ people eat it up. How many comments in this thread lol?
Do you ever feel like modern society just wants to be outraged all of the time?
How DARE you! (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Relevant.
I think that’s part of it. I think it is also caused by the fact that everyone is outraged by different things. If you get a big enough audience someone is bound to be outraged about something even if everyone is being mostky reasonable.
My reaction to outrage:
“Meh.”
Stress helps keep the ADHD at bay.
Just someone outraged.
Most people probably moved on without any reactions.
Some stayed leaving comments for whatever reason.
The story we hear is written by the latter group, even if it is a tiny minority.
People’s perspectives on things are weird. I’m totally fine with vegans, vegetarians, meat eaters, whoever. But when someone who eats meat is excited because they think meat tastes good… why did you think they eat it??? Obviously they think it’s yummy, and obviously, to a certain degree, they see animals as a source of that. If you want to fight against that fine, but don’t act surprised that it exists.
Lots of people don’t really understand where meat comes from. They understand the concept that an animal has to die, but they prefer their meat comming out of a plastic package.
Example: we used to raise our own animals, I knew every single one by name and saw them grow up. When it was time to slaughter them we brought them to the butcher, got a carcass and the fur back. Guests could help feed the animals, feel the fluffiest pillow out of treated fur and I could tell them the name of the animal we served. However, most of them (obviously all meat eaters) could not comprehend at all, how we could slaughter and process those absolutely cute things.
I prefer to know where my meat comes from. Many people prefer not to, so they can loose appetite or get upset if they see the animal before it is brought to the butcher.
Everyone should, at least once, kill something for their meal. It makes you appreciate it, even if I still buy meat from Costco, etc.
I agree, or if they can’t handle it they shouldn’t be eating it. Distancing yourself from the killing is just mental. If you’re purchasing meat, you’re causing something to be butchered. If you can’t handle witnessing it/participating in it, you should reconsider eating it. The customer is still a participant who is willfully ignorant.
Bunnies are a good one. Also they’re easy to breed.
Its considered disrespectful.
The moral take of meat eating is that we respect the animals we kill to survive, and that we dont waste or belittle the animal just because its food.
This is the reason local farms are “more ethical” than commercial farming, because theyre more likely to treat the animal with respect.
Ramsey here is getting flack cause its kinda disrespectful to the living thing he is going to eat.
I don’t think the animal was aware of the mockery
No one said it was?
Ok so what’s the problem? No victim, no crime.
You arent trying to not hurt the lambs feelings.
You respect the animal because that respect is what keeps you from forgeting that the lamb is still a living, thinking, feeling animal even when its going to become food.
When you respect your livestock, you feed them well, keep them groomed, treat them when sick, and keep them reasonably happy. You cant abuse your animals when you respect them.
Obviously this doesnt mean ramsay is an animal abuser. Im sure he just thinks its a funny joke. In the right contexts, it usually is.
I don’t think he can say anything that is comparable in disrespect to what happens in the average slaughterhouse (bad compared to ethically sourced meat? Sure, you could argue that)
Ok, and? You dont respect someone by finding the person who respects them the least and setting your bar 1 notch above that.
Respect is a human concept. It isn’t in nature and it’s just to make people like you feel better about the fact that life means you gotta kill something to keep living. At least food is delicious.
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I don’t think ‘surprised’ is the word that really fits what is going on here. I’m a meat eater and even i think this is Unnecessary… inappropriate… in the same way that I hate idiot drivers even though I drive a car too.
but then your argument doesn’t really have any relevancy if it’s anything but pretending people are without the worldly experience you deem to have and believe we’re just over here clutching pearls over it.
People are pretty obviously protesting his behavior prior to dining/slaughter.
There’s such a thing as responsible, informed omnivores who don’t like this objectifying bone head (wonder what home life is like with Gordon) or his behavior towards something that will give it’s life to sustain us.
Why can’t I choose my lamb or cow while it’s still alive the way I choose my lobster at Red Lobster?
Because you’re gonna eat the whole lobster yourself. You’d have to get a quorum of the other customers who are going to eat it.
He’s a chef. Have the guarantee that he doesn’t eat all the food he chooses to cook.
Kolanaki?
The answer we know OPs question which is more general
You can if you go buy one from a farmer. In many rural places, you can then take it (or have it sent) to a butcher, and then pick up your coolers of fresh meat cuts to fill your deep freezer at home. I know people who do this, say once or twice a year. Better quality meat, often the animal had a better life on a local small farm, and per pound, far better price over the course of the year.
You absolutely can it’s just logistically awkward. Just think about it, how often do you eat lobster versus how often you eat steak?
But I’m fairly sure that if you turned up at a farm you can actually do this, at least once or twice. Although long term I’m not sure it would be in the farmers interest because it’s probably more hassle than it’s worth.
I looked and this isn’t satire. Somehow.
Any meat eater who is offended by his statements needs to find a big ol mirror and stare in it until they ratify that feeling with their diet.
That headline is probably based on a single tweet by some nobody, and they’re probably vegan.
…and they’re probably vegan.
I’m not so sure about that. I think lots of vegans would appreciate lampshading the brutality of slaughtering cute little baby sheep.
My bet would be on an omnivore that thinks of themselves as an animal lover getting upset by being made to feel cognitive dissonance.
lampshading
You missed an opportunity there for ‘lambshading’
What I’m an omnivores animal lover. I love them best in my belly
At least he’s honest.
Jesus Christ people are sensitive
“Oh yeah? Well, I was nailed to a cross.”
- Jesus Christ
Ironic, maybe stopping eating meat if you think it’s horrible to view animals as walking meals?
One can eat meat without celebrating that an animal had to die to get it. The celebration just makes you look like a serial killer…
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Truth is better than ignorance
There is a difference between acknowledging death, and celebrating it.
I would argue that looking at a live animal and saying it looks tasty is normal, especially compared with other omnivores and carnivores. Looking at a processed hamburger and saying the same thing is much less natural IMO
If you want to limit this to what’s “natural”, you had better be eating all your meat raw. Saying a live animal looks tasty makes it sound like you want to eat it alive.
Are you an animal? Yes. Do lions fucking mourn their kill?no that’d make them insane. It’s crazy to feel bad about being a natural predator lol!
How is that at all ironic. People are protesting his savagery in his behavior prior to doing something most of us do and have always done since the beginning of time.
It’s obvious to the rest of us (obviously not you) that we’re upset not about his meal eating, but because of his taunting and his apathy.
Just you out here pushing self-confirming narratives
I don’t see anything wrong with this
I’ve shot and killed my own cow, I skinned it, cut it, and roasted it over a massive fire pit. The locals were loving every second of it happening, and I can totally agree with Ramsay.
Just remember to use Mint Sauce/Jelly on the lamb, its like opening a portal to flavourtown.
Chicken with a knife. Oh so so good. If you are going to eat meat you should be willing to do it yourself at least once in your life.
I love lamb. I love organ meats and I wish we had a larger variety of animals available where I live. I miss italy… I love handling meat and making it into something delicious. I would watch the lamb behind my house and be excited knowing Christmas and Easter was coming just so we got to eat roast lamb.
To be fair, these are very young animals. Lamb is just a name they use for “baby sheep” to make it more palatable. It’s the same with “veal”.
I eat lots of animals, but I don’t like eating the baby ones. Haven’t had one in at least a decade, and I really don’t think I’m missing out on anything.
The reason for the name isn’t to make it more palatable, at least originally. The name for the animal comes from the peasants, speaking old English, and the name for the food came from the nobility speaking French, who didn’t have to deal with the animals. We call adult sheep meat mutton, for example, not to make it palatable, but because of the history of the language. Same for deer/venison, pig/pork, cow/beef, etc.
Edit: actually I don’t know if this is true for lamb, but for veal and the rest it’s true.
In my language, which is very distant from the english/frank dicotomy, we never had that distinction between peasant and nobility food and still we get a lot of words to distinguish between meats.
Mutton is either carneiro/ovelha (ram/sheep) or just chanfana (this word is used to denote the meat comes from a fully matured animal, over a minimum of two years old, usually around four or five).
Lamb can either be borrego (most commonly used word) or anho (a less used word, alledgely tied to the time we were under moorish occupation).
The words are imperative and not there to make things more palatable; these can’t be thrown around to designate the meat solely, as the meat designates the animal and vice versa.
To be fair, they taste delicious.
The lambs typically live longer than chickens.
Thats about animal lifespan, and has nothing to do with the conversation.
They also live better than chickens though.
The person I was replying to was referring to not wanting to eat baby sheep because they’re young, I was pointing out that another meat they probably eat has an even shorter lifespan. Point being, if you’re against eating baby sheep because they’re young, you should also probably be against eating chicken, because they’re younger and have an even worse life.
Thats completely and entirely dependant on the farm, not their being chickens.
Again, “younger” is relative to the lifespan of an animal. We dont eat chicks.
And the quality of life for a chicken is not based on its age or net time spent living, but by the type of farm who owns them.
You dont have a point or statement here.
Again, “younger” is relative to the lifespan of an animal. We dont eat chicks.
No. We just breed them such that they grow so much muscle mass the chicken couldn’t live much longer than its harvested lifespan. It will be unable to stand up, and rot to death on the spot. Other breeds of chickens have much longer lives, 5-10 years, but meat chickens only live 6-7 weeks.
I do have a point, you just can’t accept that you’re a little bit more ignorant in these matters than I am.
Which, again, is breed and farm owner specific, and has exactly zero to do with age of the animal on both a species specific tims span and net time alive.
Do you think I, a farm worker, do not understand the nuance of farm animals? Or are you just too pig headed to admit you were wrong and are now trying to pretend that any and every issue with farm animals is secretly about the amount of time they are alive before we eat them?
Lol yeah they could have gone to college or cured cancer.
Very palatable
I do this at the county fair all the time before the auction. “ooo, that one looks tasty” “look at the haunches on that fucker he looks delicious” it’s so fun
Also at the aquarium before we go to sushi
And at the kids park before I… uh nevermind
when a parent approaches you and asks “which one is yours?” the right answer is not “haven’t decided yet” or “just browsing”
